Trust Your Gut, Pivot With Purpose with Harper Spero
In this episode of Good Enough for Now, we turn the microphone on co-host Harper Spero and preview the next season of the show.
Harper Spero is the founder of Made Visible, a 100-episode podcast that amplifies stories of people living with or affected by invisible illness. She facilitates writing classes for the Made Visible community and works with companies to create inclusivity and connection for their employees living with invisible illnesses through content, community, classes and workshops.
LISTEN NOW
three reasons why you should listen to this episode:
How your sense of identity can shift and change throughout your life
Recognize the value of sharing stories that are reflective of your own
Find self alignment by tuning in to your health
Highlights
We caught up with Harper in Tel Aviv where she has been living for the last year. Having successfully produced and released 100 episodes, and receiving positive feedback from countless listeners over the years, Made Visible was near and dear to her heart, making the difficult decision to step away from that project in 2020 was not easy. Now that she’s settled and started Good Enough For Now, she realized how much she missed her first show and she’s decided to relaunch it in 2023. She will be stepping away from Good Enough For Now at the end of this year and Stephanie will continue with season two.
I decided to create what I wanted to exist in the world…This was an opportunity for me to go “I wanna provide people with the platform to use their voice to share their stories related to invisible illnesses”. And this is patients, family members, caregivers, doctors, healers, therapists, as well as people who started businesses related to invisible illness.
And I'm seeing that as an opportunity to be able to support and reach more people and more companies are helping their employees be more outspoken.
Being a self-identified New Yorker through and through, yet making the decision to move to Tel Aviv was a natural process. These two pieces of Harper’s life have shaped where she is right now and how she’s reflecting on what's important.
I feel like I need to have that attachment to, yes, I live in Tel Aviv, but also I'm still a New Yorker … I think the pandemic made me feel like I needed a huge shift that I didn't even know I needed, but something had to change and location and finding a new sense of identity happened here.
Taking small steps and being decisive by listening to the pull from some inner place, not just listening to what is in your head, can lead you down unexpected and delightful new paths.
I think one of the biggest learnings that I've had over the last few years, is how valuable it is to hear other stories that are aligned with yours. People saying something where you're like, oh my God, I'm not the only person feeling that way.
When it comes to Made Visible, it's helping other people see themselves represented, and finding ways to connect with stories, whether it's medical related, family dynamics, dealing with doctors, physical pain, emotional pain, just navigating life. I mean you hear it from me, of people on the outside who are not living within visible illnesses, not knowing how to navigate life with us and the challenges of that. I hope to share learnings that can help people that are not already in the community, but also people who are looking to be more compassionate and advocates for those who are navigating invisible illnesses.
Not wanting to put tasks off or having a lingering to-do list, Harper keeps her wall covered in post-its of things that need to be tackled. And while tools to accomplish tasks are important the idea of being productive is completely different.
But ‘productive’ for me in that time was like replenishing my body because my body had said enough, you were pushing yourself way too far. And I've learned my limitations. I've gotten really good at listening to my body and going, while people without an invisible illness may be able to push through, I really don't have the capacity and I need to listen to that going forward.
While success will look different for everyone, the key is to listen to what you feel in your body and to what you feel you are most aligned with.
And then the feeling of being excited to wake up in the morning and continue working on something. And when I decided I was gonna bring Made Visible back, I felt like there was like a new energy in my body that said, this is what you're super aligned with and this is what you need to continue doing…Put together a good balance of managing my health, my happiness, the people around me that I love and doing things that light me up and create more joy.
What Good Enough For Now means to harper:
The first thing that comes to mind is how aligned it is with my values. I am someone who does not live with regrets or thinking about failures or dwelling on failures. I see things as opportunities and ways to improve and to grow. And I've been asked on previous podcasts or interviews, what are your failures? What are your mistakes? Of course I have tons of them, but I don't spend time in the negative. I really try to figure out what's working right now, what's happening that's great or good enough and let's stay there and know that there's always opportunity for there to be growth and for there to be change. But it doesn't have to be aligned forever. And I think the pandemic definitely played a huge role in realizing anything could change at any given moment. And you have to find a way to pivot and switch as you see fit. We talked in the early days about what to name this show and the only other one that stuck with me constantly as you know, was The Squiggly Line and some asshole took it already. But it's something that I feel so connected to, just to do things the way that work for you and that nothing is permanent.
ABOUT
Since 2014, Harper has been a business coach for service-based solopreneurs and small business owners. She works with clients individually and in groups. She is often referred to as the external CMO/COO to her clients. In 2018, Harper launched Made Visible, a 100-episode podcast that amplified stories of people living with or affected by invisible illness. In 2020, she began facilitating writing classes for the Made Visible community to give them a safe place to share, feel more seen and heard, and to learn from established authors. She is working with companies to create inclusivity and connection for their employees living with invisible illnesses through content, community, classes and workshops.
When she’s not coaching, podcasting, consulting or connecting people, you can find her seeing live music, gazing at sunsets on the beach and creating kitchen concoctions without following recipes. After many years of volunteering, Harper joined the Board of Trustees for the Immune Deficiency Foundation (IDF) in 2021. Harper is originally from New York City, currently lives in Tel Aviv and is constantly redefining her definition of home.
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Stephanie (00:04):
Hi, and welcome to Good Enough For Now, we are Your hosts. I'm Stephanie Kruse.
Harper (00:10):
I'm Harper Spero. And our show is for people who wanna make meaning from life's detours so they can find the creative resilience to move forward.
Stephanie (00:18):
We'll explore stories of transition, false starts, unexpected U-turns, and other moments of reinvention that happen as we move through life. Each week we'll bring you a fresh perspective from our own lives and share insights from guests we bring on the show.
Harper (00:33):
Join us when you need a moment to get out of your head. Feel less alone and maybe a little bit more
Stephanie (00:39):
Together. Together. So today's show is gonna be a little different. My guest is also my co-host, Harper Spero. Hey Harper. Woo.
Harper (00:57):
Hi.
Stephanie (00:58):
I'm so excited to have this conversation. This was something that we planned as we launched the show that eventually we would turn the mic on ourselves. And so I think it's really exciting to hear your story and more of your background along with all of our guests and maybe finding that our questions are quite difficult. We'll see
Harper (01:20):
True,
Stephanie (01:21):
But also because we are gonna be sharing some news about the format of the show. So let's get started. Harper, where are you in your life right now?
Harper (01:33):
Wow, this is so weird to be on the other side of this really, I'm thinking back to like when we said we were gonna do these episodes and we prolonged them to a certain degree of like, how are we gonna format these? How are we gonna do these? But I'm excited to be on the other side of the mic. So where am I right now? I will get right into it, which is that we have been working on this podcast since April and we launched in September. And we have learned so much together and separately about ourselves, about the podcast, about podcasting <laugh>, which by the way, I had a conversation with someone today about how much it changed since my previous show ended in October, 2020 and how different the world is of podcasting and the world in general. And I'm here to share, or we're here to share that I am actually gonna be stepping away from the podcast at the end of this year. And Stephanie is gonna continue the show starting in 2023. My priorities and my interests have shifted in recent months to realize that I wanna prioritize Made Visible and other projects. And it's been an amazing learning to go through this process together as business partners and figuring out the things that work and don't work and realizing what I'm most passionate about. So for me, made Visible is something that I'm really committed to and that's what I'm moving forward with.
Stephanie (03:02):
I'm really excited for you and I think that going through the process together, as you so eloquently put, it was a learning experience. And sometimes, you know, in life I find like saying yes to things is easy. Saying no is harder. And then changing your mind in the midst of it, right? But also starting this podcast and really talking to our guests and learning from them about how life is all a progression. So many of the answers that they gave us over this season were though very different, had similar themes, right? So it didn't work out the way I expected it to. It led me somewhere else. I found a way, a structure system, resources, my own change of mind or priorities that led me to something better and for you made visible with something. And I want you to tell listeners more about what that show is about, was something that's near and dear to your heart that you had decided to step away from. So can you talk about what that show meant to you? How you decided to end it in 2020? You started this one and now you realize, oh, maybe I wanna go back there. So talk me through that one.
Harper (04:18):
Yeah, I'll tell you that process. So I started made visible in 2018 when I was looking online for content related to invisible illness. And I couldn't find it. I would look at blogs and articles and you know, check out different content related to health stuff. But I found that most of the content that existed I didn't resonate with It was a lot of people who were bedridden stuck at home and unable to live these full lives in the way that I have felt that I have been able to even given the fact that I have an invisible illness. And it was depressing to read this stuff. And then I would look for podcasts and I'd find random episodes on other podcasts, but never something cohesive. So I decided to create what I wanted to exist in the world, which is so much of what my business and career has been before I started my business.
(05:10):
Before I started podcasting, I had eight jobs in 10 years, all of which I created for myself, not ever replacing anyone, always finding an opportunity to work somewhere. So this was an opportunity for me to go, I wanna provide people with the platform to use their voice to share their stories related to invisible illnesses. And this is patients, family members, caregivers, doctors, healers, therapists, as well as people who started businesses related to invisible illness. And I ran the show for two and a half years, from 2018 to 2020, I had a hundred episodes, got amazing press, amazing guests, incredible audience and listeners who would send me messages on Instagram and email and just sort sort of gush about how amazing the content was and how much less alone they felt in whatever they were navigating with their own health. And when it came to 2020, which was quite the year for all of us, I found that it was really challenging for me to navigate my own health, navigate my own mental health and run a business and a podcast listening to people's stories that often were not very light.
(06:25):
Yeah. And it got to this point from an emotional standpoint that I couldn't really handle it anymore to be doing so consistently. And along with that, there were obviously aspects from a marketing standpoint and building and growing an audience and doing what I could to be able to take it to the next level that I just didn't feel like I had the capacity for. At that time I had no idea if I would bring it back. I decided to put a pin in it and see where it went. And so many different things happen in starting to facilitate writing classes for people with invisible illnesses. And then we got paired up and sort of said, all right, let's explore this. I always loved podcasting. That was something that I never stopped loving. And I think one of the biggest learnings that I had through our time working together was how much I loved and made visible.
(07:15):
Mm-hmm <affirmative> and how dedicated I was to that audience and to that community and how many messages I still get two plus years later from listeners saying, I just re-listened to this episode or I listened to this for the first time. Or when are you releasing new episodes? Even brands that I'm in talks with saying these are topics that we're hearing a lot of people wanting more of. So I feel like there's an opportunity where unfortunately one of the benefits of the pandemic is that companies are prioritizing the health and mental health of their employees. And I'm seeing that as an opportunity to be able to support and reach more people and more companies are helping their employees be more outspoken. So that's really where I stand on made visible and why I've decided to bring it back. I'm going to start in 23 to relaunch old episodes, some of my favorites and some of listeners' favorites and then we'll release some new episodes after that.
Stephanie (08:19):
I think you starting the podcast and giving a solution to something you didn't have was such a core fundamental, I don't know if obsession's the right word, but you know, perhaps obsession that really fills a fire and a love for the people and the community that you've created. And I think that yes, you could step away from the structure and the work and the hassle and some of those things, but you certainly didn't step away from caring about it and having it be important to you. And so I'm really proud of you that you've come back to something. I don't think you ever it honestly, no. Because you were still leading your writing groups that are part of made visible. You've still been doing professional work that's supporting these E S G groups that you were talking about in companies. In the meantime, you've also really shifted your life. You are a self-identified New Yorker through and through, but you left New York and now have lived in Tel Aviv for over a year now, which is crazy. I cannot believe it's been that long. Can you talk about how these two pieces of your life have shaped where you are right now and how you're reflecting on what's important?
Harper (09:32):
We were talking earlier before we started recording about someone who you can tell smiles when they talk and when you ask this question, it's impossible for me not to smile and go, oh my God, I dunno how to handle this topic. Cause it's such a strange one for me. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you're absolutely correct that my identity was so wrapped around, hi, I'm Harper from New York. I've never lived above 23rd Street was so much a part of my identity and everything about me and the way in which I speak and act and handle myself felt attached to my identity as a New Yorker. And I think I have had a connection to Israel since 2008, Tel Aviv specifically after going on a trip with Birthright Israel. And I just instantly felt a connection here that I'd never felt anywhere else in the world. And I returned 13 times between 2008 and 2020, whether it was for a week trip, a friend's wedding, a vacation, spending a winter here.
(10:31):
I was always coming back, but I never saw it as a place to live. And my friends used to always tell me the ones who live here that I was on vacation when I was here. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I would always give them a hard time saying, I'm not on vacation, I'm subletting an apartment, I'm running my business from here. But when I look back they were absolutely correct because last summer I booked a flight to come here in July 21 and they didn't open the borders and they were not letting people in due to Covid still. And I basically refused to accept that <laugh> and said, okay, what do I have to do to get into this country? And the answer was, make Aliah, which is in Hebrew, getting citizenship and moving to Israel. So that's exactly what I did. And it's interesting because when I look back on it, I didn't talk to a lot of people about this, there was not some big process that I was saying, oh my God guys, this is so grueling.
(11:29):
I'm working on this for the next two years of my life. As I've heard a lot of people do with like Portugal and Italy, all these people trying to get European citizenship that is so far from what this was, it was a lot of paperwork, a lot of running around, a lot of logistics. But I was doing it in this like insular way of like, just give me the damn paper and passport and let me get to where I need to go. And I don't, I don't think I really knew then what it was that I needed, but I needed this fix. And my intention was once I got that passport and I was officially an Israeli citizen in late fall 2021, I came to Tel Aviv, rented an apartment for the first time instead of Subleted, but had the intention that I was coming for the winter and I had sublet for the months and I wasn't here and maybe I'd come for a few weeks or a month in the summer, but essentially I was splitting time slash mainly in New York.
(12:26):
And that ended up not being the case. As you said, it's been a year and a week and I've been back to New York three times and I'll be there next week. And I honestly have no desire to live there right now. And I think it sort of aligns with, you know, good enough for now in the sense that this works for me right now and I'm masked every single day. Are you living there for good? Are you gonna stay there forever? And I have absolutely no freaking clue anything could happen in my life that could change that. So for me there's definitely a bit of an identity crisis of <laugh>. I feel like I need to have that attachment to, yes, I live in Tel Aviv, but also, but also, but also I'm still a New Yorker and the New Yorker magazine cover just came out of like Reasons to Love New York yesterday. And my heart was like outta my body looking at these images and going, oh my God, this place, there's so much love there, there's so much I'm attached to. And at the same time I think the pandemic made me feel like I needed a huge shift that I didn't even know I needed, but something had to change and location and finding a new sense of identity happened here.
Stephanie (13:45):
Yeah, I mean it's like we don't know what we need sometimes until we no longer have those things we take for granted that
Harper (13:52):
The truth,
Stephanie (13:53):
You knew New York like the back of your hand, it's your whole entire identity in so many ways. At the same time there was a magnet, there was some pull for Tel Aviv and you answered that call with a step in one direction. And it reminds me so much of some of the guests that we've talked to and even the images of like get from one lily pad to the next, right? Like take all these small steps and granted moving, you know, thousands of miles away is no small step necessarily. But I think that's all relative to how you see that. And you were so decisive cuz I think you felt a pull from some inner place and it wasn't just your head.
Harper (14:35):
Yeah. And I love the analogy of the magnet. No one's ever said that before and I think it's so accurate. I also think one of the biggest parts of being able to do this is number one, running a business that's remote. Which allowed me back in the day when I came for the the winters, I didn't have to change anything about my business. And number two, I have a foundation of incredible people who are friends, who are like family, you know, Facebook groups are crucial here. They're like the only way to connect with new people. Unfortunately, I hate giving them business, but it's an amazing platform to meet new people. And I see people posting in Facebook groups at least once a day who recently moved here, whether recently means months ago or years ago and can't find their footing and don't have friends and are seeking connection in such major ways that I've been really fortunate to not have to deal with. So I had a level of a foundation and familiarity of this city. There were plenty of challenges along the way, opening a bank account and dealing with the health system and all the bureaucracy bullshit that is very much there. Lots of tear Shed, but I feel like I'm on the other side of being able to handle that, navigate it in a way that I had no idea that that was ever gonna be something that I pursued.
Stephanie (15:56):
Yeah. Going back to made visible where you are able to bring to light stories that are difficult, what are some of the things that you think are really important to you about that now that you've kind of learned from these more recent experiences of your own changes?
Harper (16:14):
I think one of the biggest learnings that I've had over the last few years, especially through the pandemic, is how valuable it is to hear other stories that are aligned with yours. People saying something where you're like, oh my God, I'm not the only person feeling that way. You know, of course we know that there are people out there theoretically who are experiencing something similarly, but I think about back in the day, early pandemic wise of things related to masks and social distancing and all of that and how seriously I had to take it given my medical condition and finding other people that were as like nuts as I was because we had to be because we live with invisible illnesses. And so I think for me, when it comes to made visible, it's helping other people see themselves represented. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and finding ways to connect with stories, whether it's medical related, family dynamics, dealing with doctors, physical pain, emotional pain, just navigating life. I mean you hear it from me and Tiffany, our mutual friend and past podcast guests talk about it regularly of people on the outside who are not living within visible illnesses, not knowing how to navigate life with us. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and the challenges of that. So I hope to share more learnings that can help people that are not just already in the community, but also people who are looking to be more compassionate and more advocates for those who are navigating invisible illnesses.
Stephanie (17:54):
I mean it's so important I think when we see a reflection of ourselves or some circumstance or emotion that we're going through in other people, it allows us to sort of process it too. So along with the podcast, which is something that you're bringing back, I know that you've embarked on new relationships in bringing that idea of made visible into corporate clients. Can you talk a little bit about how that's working out for you?
Harper (18:19):
Yeah, absolutely. Interestingly, a friend of mine who works at ubs, the bank connected me with the employer resource group at ubs. And we had some great conversations earlier this year where I am bringing content and community and connection for people living within invisible illnesses and disabilities within companies. As I said, that's sort of the benefit of the pandemic is that employers are starting to prioritize this more than before. Interestingly today the first episode of a podcast with UBS is launching where I interviewed one of their employees about her experience of living with an invisible illness in the workplace. And right now it's private, hopefully it will be released publicly. But I'm talking and working with a bunch of other companies of all sizes, whether it's with the employee resource groups or their head of wellness or head of people or head of disability, to create more opportunities for people in companies to feel like they have a safe space to either share, write, communicate what it is that they're going through, and use their voice to educate their colleagues.
(19:32):
And I think there's huge opportunities to be able to connect with each other internally, not knowing what other people are going through. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and that's what I'm trying to help these companies do and bring more of. So whether it's creating an internal podcast, doing interviews through a newsletter, facilitating writing classes for employees with invisible illnesses and disabilities and also coaching groups. Since that's my background, I've sort of got this long menu of depending on what you're going through, what your employees needs are and what your budgets are, I'm there to support this community and help people feel more seen and supported.
Stephanie (20:12):
Yeah and I, I think as we think about the broader spectrum of what work life is and how teams operate, as we've gone through the transition from the pandemic into this hybrid slash now everyone has to be back in the office, right. And people who've been hired and haven't engaged, especially younger people earlier in their careers, programs like this are so important to create that engagement.
Harper (20:41):
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm seeing from the people that I'm talking to, how much people are lacking that connection and especially based on like the different groups that they're in, whether it's a Bipo group or an LGBTQ plus group, finding ways to connect with like-minded people in the companies to feel seen and to feel like they have colleagues and employers that really believe in them, trust them and see them.
Stephanie (21:08):
Yeah. And I think, boy aren't we talking about it now? I mean it's holiday time and Apple's latest brand ad the greatest, it's insanely touching and so relevant about how their technology can help people with disabilities.
Harper (21:25):
I have chilled just hearing you talk about it, I was blown away by it. We'll put it in the show notes in case you guys haven't seen it, but it's really, really spectacular.
Stephanie (21:35):
It's amazing. The one thing that I wanted to also ask you is in working with you, you are somebody that is so effective. So you manage your life, your to-do list, your tasks, you are the ultimate organizer, you are the ultimate connector, <laugh> both of people and things and tasks <laugh>. How do you think about how much you can accomplish and what resources you can use to help yourself get to that bigger goal that you have of really sharing these stories. So behind the curtain of Harper Spiro, like how does she get all this done in a day? <laugh>.
Harper (22:15):
Wow, you really got me on that one Steph. You know, it's interesting, I was thinking about the questions that you had asked today and I think about myself as uh, bit of a recovering perfectionist because I realized that I spent so many years in the mores better mode, especially in working for other people and just trying to climb the ladder. So I'm trying to sort of be okay with where things are at and it not being the absolute best good enough for now <laugh>. But you know, I think there's part of me that doesn't know how to turn off everything that you just said. It is part of my dna, you know, I remember walking through Woodstock with a friend of mine and she was like, yeah, connect me that person when you get a chance. And I was like, no, I'm doing it right now.
(23:06):
Like it needs to be handled right this second. I don't wanna put it off. I don't like having a lingering to-do list. My wall is covered in post-its of things that aren't lingering that need to get tackled. Like let's make sure that they get done. So I work well that way and I don't like things lingering. We were even talking before we started recording about how the algorithm for LinkedIn is to post and then to engage a day later. And my brain does not function that way. <laugh> to wait until tomorrow to engage like that is not gonna happen. A friend of mine gave me a strategy today of like post the next day and that's when you, you also reengage, you're reminded to go on. No, but I don't function that way at all. So no question that stuff works for me. My processes may be unique to me and maybe untraditional, but they work for me.
(23:59):
And then you know, with the podcast outsourcing for the things that I am not good at, this has been something that I have been very, very clear on from the minute I started my business. If there's something I'm not good at and I'm not interested in becoming an expert in mm-hmm <affirmative>, I'm gonna find the funds to be able to outsource it. Whether that's copywriting, graphic design, editing, social media and certain aspects, digital marketing, seo, et cetera. Because I'm just not interested in becoming some like professional audio editor mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it's so not worth my time when I can be doing so much more. So I think to a certain degree it's a lot of what I was doing already with made visible and what we have done together. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but also sort of up-leveling it and finding more opportunities to expand my audience and build my network.
Stephanie (24:51):
Yeah. And I think you're also really good at boundaries around those things. So right in this moment in the present, I'm gonna get this done. So you know, it's probably some mental load relief that's maybe serving you there for sure. And then there's the fact that pretty much if you follow Harper on Instagram almost every day you'll see a photo of the beach and you make time for that. So tell me how you make sure you have that piece.
Harper (25:23):
I recently started putting it in my calendar.
Stephanie (25:25):
Ooh.
Harper (25:27):
Honestly, when the time change happened and the sun was going down earlier, I realized that it was gonna screw with my call times. Mm-hmm <affirmative> for working with the US and the sunset's been setting at like four 30 lately, which is just painfully early. And so I put it in my calendar, it's in there like yoga, like business meetings, like podcast recordings. And I'd say I get there six days a week most of the time, no matter the weather in the winter I'm there sometimes I'm the person on the beach and there's better in the summer. It's awful bombarded by people and children and
Stephanie (26:07):
Messes
Harper (26:08):
<laugh>. But there's something about it that feels like a total reset for me no matter how good or a bad day I've had, I go there and I can take this big deep breath and feel some sense of relief and okay, let's get on with the rest of the day. And I think what's interesting is it sort of plays into the fact that I really love working from Tel Aviv running a US business and having the time difference where I don't sleep really well. So I'm able to sleep in and I have, have the opportunity to like take my time in the morning, make a matcha, respond to emails, maybe read or write if I'm in a good mode and I don't feel like I have to rush out the door or like sit at my computer instantly to get back to people. And so I have this whole day to spend however I want, whether I'm working or not.
(27:02):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and then when you know, people are waking up in New York all of a sudden, all right, I'm getting more emails and I'm starting to have calls and I love that and having this more condensed time period that I'm working as opposed to when I was back in New York pre pandemic, I'd sit at a co-working space for eight hours, not super productive, then get home and be like, oh shit, there's more I need to do. And I'm like having an 18 hour day. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So for me, I absolutely love the time difference and being able to compartmentalize my personal life and my business and managing my health.
Stephanie (27:41):
Thank you for sharing that because I, I think that is so important. You know, people see entrepreneurs or podcast hosts and you think, oh my gosh, they get so much work done. Are they at their desk for 18 hours? Right. As you just described. And it doesn't have to be like that. It's almost like driving a car and I know you don't drive, but like sometimes you've gotta speed up and that pedal is down and other times you're slowing down, you're taking your foot completely off the gas and you're coasting and then other times you put on cruise control and let other people kinda help out. And I think it's understanding how to modulate is where the magic happens. Right. Well
Harper (28:23):
And I'd also say like last week I had just sort of a nonstop work week, a lot going on and I had plans every single night and by Friday morning I woke up and I just felt completely depleted. I was unable to do anything for three days. I was home, I went to sunsets, I didn't see friends, I didn't read, I didn't do anything you would consider productive. But productive for me in that time was like replenishing my body because my body had said enough Harper. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you were like pushing yourself way too far. And I've learned my limitations. I've gotten really good at listening to my body and going, while people without an invisible illness may be able to push through, I really don't have the capacity and I need to listen to that going forward.
Stephanie (29:13):
I think everyone can relate to that because I agree we just had everybody in the house had a cold or the flu. Right. And I think about the lead up to that was, you know, November accelerating craziness for work life school for the kids, those kinds of things. And your body can't handle it, whether it's the stress it produces, the lack of sleep it produces maybe your nutrition. But I think everybody's physical, physical feedback loop comes back to them at some point.
Harper (29:44):
I think the big difference is a lot of people don't listen to it. And I'm not saying I'm some perfect person in listening to it cuz it took 27 years of not listening to my body to go wake the fuck up and do something about it. But I do think, and I have friends with invisible illnesses who choose to just go and I think there's a level of judgment mm-hmm <affirmative> that I have felt from some of these people who don't get why I can't push through. Yeah. And I've experienced that before and we've had conversations about it, but I think it's a really important thing where people just choose to keep going on because they think that they can handle it and maybe they can and maybe I could, but I'm not looking to push that limit too far.
Stephanie (30:28):
Maybe you could, but at what cost, right? It's not worth it to you clearly. No. So two more questions. One is when you think about your career trajectory, obviously non-linear, just like everyone else we talked to and myself included, how do you define success?
Harper (30:48):
I think it's ever changing. You know, it's interesting because I had a blog series years ago about defining success and got so many interesting answers and I think so much of it is about balance and doing the things that I love, that I'm passionate about, seeing the results that it has. I hate saying it, but it is definitely something related to impact and a level of validation that it's helping somebody that there's a lesson learned, that it's making some level of an impact, no question. That plays a huge role in it. And then the feeling of being excited to wake up in the morning and continue working on something. And when I decided I was gonna bring made visible back, I felt like there was like a new energy in my body that said, okay, this is what you're super aligned with and this is what you need to continue doing. So for me, success is all of that. Put together a good balance of managing my health, my happiness, the people around me that I love and doing things that light me up and create more joy.
Stephanie (31:54):
I love that. And it is, it is true. Like when you feel that, I don't know if it's flow state, all of the alignments, all of the beautiful feelings that come from that, there's nothing like it.
Harper (32:05):
No, absolutely not. There's something really special about that.
Stephanie (32:09):
Yeah. Oh I'm so excited for you. Okay, so here we go. Are you ready for this?
Harper (32:14):
Maybe, maybe not.
Stephanie (32:16):
<laugh> last question. When you hear the phrase it's good enough for now, what does that evoke for you?
Harper (32:26):
The first thing that comes to mind is how aligned it is with my values. I am someone who does not live with regrets or thinking about failures or dwelling on failures. I see things as opportunities and ways to improve and to grow. And I've been asked on previous podcasts or interviews, what are your failures? What are your mistakes? Of course I have tons of them, but I don't spend time in the negative. I really try to figure out what's working right now, what's happening that's great or good enough and let's stay there and know that there's always opportunity for there to be growth and for there to be change. But it doesn't have to be aligned forever. And I think the pandemic definitely played a huge role in realizing anything could change at any given moment. And you have to find a way to pivot and switch as you see fit. You know, we talked about early days what to name this show and the only other one that stuck with me constantly as you know, was the squiggly line and some asshole took it already, <laugh>, <laugh>. But it's something that I feel so connected to, just to do things the way that work for you and that nothing is permanent.
Stephanie (33:51):
Well said. And I think that you're a living example of that in the decisions you make and how you're traveling down that road, you know, high points, low points, everything in between. And I think for us and our work together in creating this show, that's definitely something that was obvious aligned with who you are and your values. And I think it's even more aligned that you're doing your own thing and it's all good. And you know, that was one of the things we would joke about. You know, we were trying to make decisions about guests or what to do with the graphics or how to do the branding and it was like, well if we get really crazy about this, like we're not living the brand, it's good enough for now. You know, it can always change <laugh>. So I will leave you with that. But Harper, it's been a pleasure and I couldn't have done this without you to get this off the ground. You have been like my business coach, confidant partner and I'm looking forward to the next phase of our relationship as I cheer you on. And hopefully you can do the sa, I know you'll do the same for me, <laugh>, and I can't wait to see what's next for you. I know it's only gonna continue to be amazing.
Harper (35:03):
Thanks Steph. No, I think there's a reason that we came together. There's a reason that we launched this together and I'm so excited to see what you make of this come season. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.
Stephanie (35:18):
Oh That's Pressure.
Harper (35:18):
No Pressure. Recovering perfectionist, recovering perfectionist <laugh>. But I'm so thrilled that you're continuing to do this because I know that you have so much more to offer listeners and there's so many more stories that need to be shared. So I'm excited for you, good luck and uh, excited to see what, what happens for the future with us.
Stephanie (35:39):
Fantastic. And for our listeners, where can they find you if they wanna follow your journey and what's next and learn more about made visible?
Harper (35:47):
Yeah, absolutely. So my website is harper spiro.com. Made visible website is made visible stories.com. You can follow me on Instagram Harper underscore Spero and Made Visible is made visible stories on Instagram.
Stephanie (36:08):
If you like the show, please follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. And give us a five star rating and review
Harper (36:17):
For show notes and more information, head to good enough for now. pod.com
Stephanie (36:21):
And follow us on Instagram at good enough for now Pod.
Harper (36:25):
See you next week.
