Reframing Financial Wellness with Ashley Feinstein Gerstley
In this episode of Good Enough for Now, we chat with author, entrepreneur, and money coach Ashley Feinstein Gerstley about her personal journey toward financial wellness and how to reframe our relationships and understanding of budgeting, mentorship, and negotiating.
Ashely is the founder of The Fiscal Femme and has just released her new book Financial Adulting, where she details everything you need to know to be a financial confident and conscious adult. Her first book, The 30-Day Money Cleanse, is a practical guide to take control of your finances, manage your spending, and de-stress your money for good.
Tune in to hear about Ashley’s journey through the world of finance and learn skills and strategies you can adopt to take full control of your finances.
LISTEN NOW
Here are three reasons why you should listen to this episode:
Deconstruct the stigma that surrounds talking about money and finances.
Learn to reframe and master your negotiation and budgeting skills.
Eliminate the limiting beliefs that are holding you back from achieving financial wellness.
Resources
Read The 30-Day Money Cleanse by Ashley Feinstein Gerstley
Read Financial Adulting by Ashley Feinstein Gerstley
Check out The Fiscal Femme
Read The Fiscal Femme Blog
Follow The Fiscal Femme on Instagram
Follow The Fiscal Femme on Tiktok
Email Ashley
Visit upcoming guest Akilah Cadet of Change Cadet
Highlights
Ashley launched her career in investment banking, where she worked long hours and dealt with finances daily. But when she made a job switch, took a pay cut, and finally had time to spend her money, she found herself ill-equipped to handle her own finances.
I was bleeding through my money…I needed to create a budget. And I didn't know how, so that's really where it all began.
As Ashley embarked on her personal finance journey, she was mentoring others informally. One day in spin class, she had a revelation: she could marry her own financial literacy journey with her life coaching practice formally.
Though she was afraid to take that leap, a life coach empowered her to let her fears guide her.
She challenged me to start sharing about my journey, to overcome this fear and grow…and that’s where the Fiscal Femme started.
What began as a public blog and personal exercise toward financial wellness transformed into something greater once she realized that everywhere she went, people were looking for guidance around money––clients, peers, and even fellow mentors.
Eventually, other publications were reaching out to Ashley to write for them.
Through her work, Ashley attempts to dispel the stigma and shame that surrounds talking about and not knowing enough about money.
We collapse our net worth or what we earn with our personal worth…but really what we're earning, should be just what the market rate for that job is.
It really benefits individuals to talk about how much we earn, because then we can see if we're being underpaid. We can learn tricks.
One of the tricks Ashley has learned is negotiating.
When I go in and negotiate, I'm negotiating on behalf of women everywhere. I'm closing the wage gap, I'm normalizing asking for what you want…It helps to have that greater picture and feeling like we have this whole team behind us when we go in there.
When negotiating, it is important to acknowledge the systems and privileges that we are working within. Most importantly, we must reframe our understanding of negotiating as advocacy.
It can feel like a negotiation means this one meeting we have every couple of years where we sit across from our boss...really, we're negotiating all day every day.
That's what a negotiation is: asking for what you want.
Another strategy Ashley employs is creating a success log to record and share your successes with yourself and your boss.
Ashley’s most transformative negotiation deal occurred when she negotiated her way into attending The Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. As a freshman at Tulane University in New Orleans, Hurricane Katrina forced the college to shut down so she transferred to the University of Pennsylanvia. After staying there for a year and meeting with a Rabbi who mentored her, she decided to apply to Wharton, the business school.
After initially getting rejected, it was her mentor that pushed her toward fighting for what she wanted.
I got my rejection from the school that I didn't get in. And I was devastated…I remember I called him [The Rabbi] crying. He said, “Wait, you're just gonna give up?...No, you can't give up. You have to keep fighting for this, if this is something that you really want.”
So Ashley set up a meeting with the dean of the college, who allowed her to stay on the condition that she do well in the summer classes.
And she did exactly that.
It’s very cool. I have the rejection [letter]. And then the official acceptance letter.
Throughout her trajectory, Ashley has found it helpful to find mentors everywhere--from Rabbis to her parents, and even a close circle of friends. Just like negotiating is an everyday thing, so is mentorship.
We hold each other accountable and we call each other out when we're thinking small or not asking for enough, or just helping with the wording of an email.
There's also the little moments every day that are really helpful to have guidance in, because sometimes it's just hard to see through all of our stuff.
As a mother and an entrepreneur, Ashley has also found it important to establish balance. This became especially important when her son was born with a cleft lip and pallet. She took time away from her growing business to be present for her son, and ultimately for herself.
I would say regardless if you have children or not, that balance is so important, and creating that space for yourself to have time and take care of yourself.
When writing her book, Ashley sought to make it as inclusive and accessible as possible. This required her to speak to multiple people in the finance world, and take time to deconstruct the systems and privileges that we are working within.
And so to be able to boil down what you need to know, make it more accessible in how I translated it to myself, I think is what gets me excited about this work.
When it comes to tackling your financial or budgeting goals, Ashley finds success in starting small in order to establish healthy habits.
We don't have to be a different person tomorrow or change every habit in order to have success…our progress isn't linear.
We take the small steps. We get started. Something that feels impossible becomes a habit to us. I would say break it down as small as you need to get started.
Ashley also has found it helpful to reframe the time she sets aside to deal with money or show it some love by calling it aMoney Party.
We wanna reframe this time with our money to make it something we look forward to. So for me, I now love money parties so much that they are the reward in itself.
What Good Enough For Now means to Ashley:
I love the phrase good enough for now. I think in pretty much all of the areas we've spoken about–in business entrepreneurship, in our finances–perfection is really an enemy. Moving forward, growing, looks very good enough for now…When you say it, I almost feel like warm and fuzzy…You're doing good, you're okay, just keep moving. You'll learn.
ABOUT
Ashley Feinstein Gerstley is an author, entrepreneur, and feminist who is on a mission to end inequality through financial well-being. She is the founder of the Fiscal Femme and author of The 30-Day Money Cleanse.
Her consulting clients and keynote-speaking audiences have included corporations, conferences and universities, including Google, theSkimm, Pandora, StubHub, Guggenheim Partners, LinkedIn and the Wharton School, among many others.
As a trusted money expert, she has been featured in CNBC, Forbes, NBC, Glamour and The New York Times, among others.
Ashley has worked in the financial services industry for more than ten years: first as an investment banker, then in corporate finance and most recently running The Fiscal Femme. She graduated with a bachelor's in finance from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania.
Full Transcript
Harper (03:13): Ashley Feinstein Gerstley is the author of Financial Adulting. A guide that breaks down everything you need to be a financially confident and conscious adult. She's also a money coach author of the 30 day money cleanse and the founder of the fiscal fem a money platform on a mission to end inequality through financial wellbeing. As a trusted money expert she's been quoted in or appeared on the today show the financial times, CNBC Forbes, NBC glamor, and the New York times. Ashley has worked in the financial services industry for over 15 years first as an investment banker, then in corporate finance and most recently running the fiscal fem. She graduated with bachelor's in finance, from the Wharton school at the University of Pennsylvania. Now here's our conversation with Ashley Feinstein Gerstley.
Harper (04:06): Welcome Ashley. So happy to have you here. Can we start by telling us where you are in your life right now?
Ashley (04:15): I am in my closet the first thank you for having me. Um, where am I in my life right now? So physically I live in Hoboken, New Jersey. I am a mom of two little guys and building a business called the fiscal fem that I've been working on. It really started in 2011. So it's been quite some time and always growing, always learning, always making mistakes. That's kind of where I am. <laugh>
Harper (04:51): You're not new to this. And I can imagine that what you started out as which I think was maybe an investment banking, you had some financial background, you know, versus where you are now. What were those steps that shaped you into this business woman and entrepreneur?
Ashley (05:13): Yes. The steps. There were fun moments along the way that were definitely big growing moments. I'd say the biggest impetus for starting this business was that I needed it myself. And like you mentioned, I worked in finance. I studied finance, but I still knew very little about my own money. Maybe I understood how a bond worked. Right. But I didn't understand how to put together a budget or one that would actually be a budget that I could follow or want to follow. How did I change my behavior around money and how I felt about it? So there was <laugh> the, the need to start the fiscal fem or to understand this myself, to figure out my own finances. The thing that got me very excited to do that was when I made a job switch. So I was working in investment banking long hours. It was something that I knew I wanted to do to almost prove I could do it for two years, but I knew I wanted to move on after that. And when I did, I took a pay cut and I'd known longer would get a big bonus, but I'd also get my life back. And when I did that, I was bleeding through my money. It was the first time that I really had time to spend money, that I needed to create a budget. And I didn't know how <laugh>, so that's really where it all began.
Harper (06:30): My question for you is why you didn't just approach exploring this for yourself and learning it yourself and why you decided that you needed to tackle and help other people and what resources you saw were, or were not available at that time.
Ashley (06:46): Such a great question. And I really owe it to a friend of a friend who was getting her life coaching hours. So she needed hours to get her certification and she offered to coach us. And it was the time like really the beginning of life coaching becoming more popular. And there was this want to find more purpose in my work because now I had more time. I enjoyed it. I'm generally a very happy person. I think I will enjoy most work that I do, but I wanted something that I felt moved to do. And I, one aha moment I had was actually in a spin class where I was thinking, I really like helping people. I was mentoring people informally. I am figuring out my own finances. Like how can I combine these things? And when I was working with the life coach, we figured out that one of my big fears, which my fears tend to drive where I go in my life, I have to conquer them.
Ashley (07:39): But my big fear at the time was having a voice and actually putting my thoughts on the internet at the time via a blog, because it felt so scary that as I learned and grew that maybe I didn't agree with what I said, maybe what I said was wrong and it was just out there in the universe. And so she challenged me to start sharing about my journey, to kind of overcome this fear and grow in that way. And that's really where the fiscal fem started. It was called the fiscal fem the blog. I didn't know what it would become. It was an, an exercise for me to share in a way that was really scary and pushing myself and potentially if other people at the time, I didn't really know if this was something that was needed for other people, but if it was, then it could help other people as well.
Harper (08:24): I was just listening to something the other day and they talked about, you know, fear can be such a motivator and that in order to try to rationalize yourself out of being scared about the things you're afraid of is probably not great. But if your dreams are bigger than your fears, usually that can kind of help you over the hump. How did you get from, I've got a voice maybe I wanna share to, oh, this is a business that I can actually run?
Harper (08:54): And you know, make a life outta.
Ashley (08:57): Yes. And my mom and I laugh about it because she has the same thing where we always have to do what we're scared of doing. And it's kind of a hard <laugh>, we're always scared. And it's funny because what it grew from so first it was having the voice, then it was public speaking. I was terrified. And then it was having my course at my being on video. My first course, I did it all on audio call and eventually the participant said, can we see something? Can we see you? <laugh> like, damn, OK, I'll let you see me. But what made me realize that it was a business, was the response to the log because people started saying, oh, can you help me? I need help with this too. And I had a feeling because I had a finance background, I studied finance and I still didn't know about it.
Ashley (09:41): So really who did, but I still was surprised by how many people asked me about it and not just people who were my peers, but I would meet with a mentor who was very successful in their career. And we'd talk about my business. And then eventually they'd say, Hey, can we talk about money too? And I said, oh, you too, everybody. Um, <laugh> and then what happened with the blog is I had individuals reach out, but eventually too other websites reached out and they said, we need a young woman's voice talking about money in this way. Well, you write articles for us. And as someone who studied finance worked in banking and in finance, I never imagined getting paid to write, but it was a really great opportunity to build my expertise and credibility and also make money at the same time as I was growing the blog.
Harper (10:29): It's amazing. I love hearing that story and knowing that you just realized how much you could empower other people and you didn't know that upfront, but to learn along the way that other people were going through this and that you wanted to take it, you know, into your hands. There's so much stigma around money and finances and how much you make, especially for women. And I'm wondering why you think there's that stigma and what you are doing to tackle that.
Ashley (10:57): Yes, there's so much stigma and there's so little talking about money and being set up for success. Yet we have so much shame that we don't know about it, which is interesting. And it's just wild to me that we're not more prepared and not talking about it more because we deal with money almost every single day. So it's this thing that we don't talk about. We don't learn about and we have to deal with it every day. We often collapse and I think this is a society thing, but we collapse our net worth or what we earn with our personal worth. And so if I were to share what I earn and I earn a lot less than you, then I would feel shameful, but I also am afraid to share when I earn a lot more than you, because then you might feel shameful and I don't wanna create that dynamic, but really what we're earning should be just what the market rate for that job is what our current skill services engagement with, whatever that is, is happening.
Ashley (11:50): And it really benefits individuals to talk about how much we earn, because then we can see if we're being underpaid. We can learn tricks. Um, another really difficult, scary skill in personal finance is negotiating. And that's another one where before I go in, I kind of read an article about how women are earning less and I get rubbed up. And then I think about, even if it's, it's in a small way, that when I go in and negotiate, I'm negotiating on behalf of women everywhere, I'm closing the wage gap. I'm normalizing asking for what you want. Sometimes it helps to have that greater picture and feeling like we have this whole team behind us when we go in there,
Stephanie (12:30): Were there other ways that you have learned that negotiating, which is really like just a relationship you're developing has worked for you that you've sort of proven this to yourself, time and time again. Can you talk about that at all?
Ashley (12:45): Yes. And I think one thing I've seen in the personal finance rhetoric generally that drove me nuts when I was reading resources, when I was getting started is there's a lot of blaming of women, of the individual of someone who's not managing their money. Well, and this goes for negotiation too, when it's like, oh, women just need to negotiate more, but you know what? There's a reason that they're not. So I think it's really important and that's something that I try really hard to do in how I write how I speak in my books, but that we have to acknowledge the systems problems. But then there is power some power depending on our privilege to work within those systems and try to get what we want. But it's important to acknowledge that there are some repercussions depending on your workplace for negotiating. And when I left my job to work on the fiscal fem full time, I negotiated really hard probably differently than if I would've stayed because I wanted to get that next pay, bump that next title before I left.
Ashley (13:47): But I'm sure if I stayed the way I negotiated and was so persistent and followed up, would've had kind of long-term implications and the perception of me in the workplace and my relationships. And so I think about that a lot, even though that was successful, it wasn't probably successful for a longer term stay at that company. But I do think there's some demystifying around negotiations. It can feel like a negotiation means this one meeting. We have every couple of years where we sit across from our boss kind of sweating and bounding the table. Like I deserve more. Um, but really we're negotiating all day every day. Like when, if you have a roommate and they're not doing the dishes to ask them, okay, can you mind doing the dishes more? That's a negotiation. Or when we go out to dinner with a friend and we're sharing an appetizer or a dessert, or even choosing the restaurant is kind of a negotiation, especially if you're living in a different place, like whose apartment or house is it gonna be closer to what kind of food do you like?
Ashley (14:46): So if we start looking at negotiations as these conversations that we're having that are, are more low stakes every day. And instead of saying, you know, sometimes we try to be easy going and we say, I don't care, whatever you want, but it's actually a great opportunity to practice just sharing what you want. And that's what a negotiation is asking for what you want. Maybe the other person doesn't want the same thing. There might be some different wants or needs on either side. But coming to that conclusion where you're hopefully adding something more that you wanted. And then also like you mentioned, negotiations can be really a relationship with our manager, boss, supervisor, where we're having these conversations year round. And they're almost, we're fueling them having the information. They need to get us what we want. So sharing, you know, as a keeping a success log, but also sharing those successes with them.
Ashley (15:39): Like, I love this project. This was so successful because of X, Y, Z, we had this challenge and we overcame it. Or I really don't like this type of project. I'm really passionate about this. Can you give me more of these types of projects? Where do you see me going in the company? And like letting them work with you to mold this next step so that they're ready have all the information that they need when it's time for you to get that promotion. And of course, every workplace is a little different. It often takes time, but viewing it as this, we're always having these conversations quarterly, if not even monthly, where we're popping in. And I know that remote work has made it a little bit different to hop on a zoom and say, Hey, before the meeting, I just wanna tell you about this thing that went really well, but it is a very different way of thinking of a negotiation. And then when it is time for your annual review, you've had so many conversations before that. It's not a surprise. They don't have to think about it, make a whole plan. It's been in the works.
Harper (16:39): I also think there's such a stigma to the actual word and the concept of it. Like it just has a negative vibe associated with it. And the word that keeps coming to my head right now is advocacy, which has for some reason, more of a positive spin of like standing up for what you believe in. And so I wonder if it's a bit of a reframe because when you hear a negotiation, it has such a Ugh, like why are you doing that? You're not allowed to, you know, you're giving people permission here to go stand up for what you deserve and what you believe in. And at the end of the day, your value is as important as you being an employee at this company. If that makes sense,
Ashley (17:19): So much sense, it's like, don't be greedy, be a team player don't ask for more than your share. It's really interesting. You say the negative connotation because it kind of reminds me of what I did with the word budget. Like the word budget has such negative connotations. And instead of trying to reframe it just in the definition, like let's just change the name. So that off the bat, our brains are not triggering all those negative connotations. So maybe we have to come up with another word for negotiating, like advocacy or going in and advocating for yourself. I love that. I think that's really important
Stephanie (17:53): When something goes well at work or, you know, with anything you're working on sharing how much you liked it, the examples you were just saying were such an eye opener for me thinking about it. You know, it's not bragging. It's not taking credit for something you didn't do. You're giving feedback, just like you want feedback from somebody that you're working with or somebody that you have a personal relationship with a friendship with a marriage with, right? It's that relationship of how you're developing what you want and what they want and how those things need in the middle. And you just took all the shame and blame away from it as you described it, which, you know, for me, just listening to you, I thought, wow, yes, <laugh> I get this now boy, I should have understood that 25 years ago.
Harper (18:43): That's why Ashley exists though. That is exactly why Ashley is here for us. Speaking of negotiating and advocating whichever word you choose. I know that you did that for yourself in order to get into Penn. Can you tell us a little bit about that experience?
Ashley (19:00): Yes. This was when I was much younger before any of my personal finance journey, but it was something that happened where I thought, oh my goodness, everything is negotiable. It was like a very eye opening. So what happened was I was at Tula during hurricane Katrina and the school shut down and I loved Tulane. It's an incredible school. I never would've transferred, but the school actually shut down. And the funny part, this is like embarrassing, but also amazing is I was in, this is not the embarrassing part, but I was in a sorority when I was at Tula called Chi omega. And I thought, you know what? The school is closed. And I tried to go to a school closer to home, but I, I would try to go to university of Miami because that was kind of close to home, but I wouldn't be at home.
Ashley (19:44): And as a sophomore, it's like horrify. I really didn't wanna be living at home again. <laugh> and the only school that I was allowed to go to was like the local college. And so I would live at home, be commuting and just not sound good to me as a sophomore. So I looked, I thought, you know what? It might be cool to see what an Ivy league school is like for the semester, because all of these schools, band together, sister organizations to take in two lane students for the semester so that we could have a place to go and get credits. And it wasn't going to impact our GPA just to get the credit. So it didn't matter where you went and whatever. So I looked up all the Ivy league school sororities, and Penn was the only one that had my sorority. And I thought I'm coming into the school.
Ashley (20:28): It's very different as a sophomore, right? Freshman year. Everybody's so excited to meet each other. It might be more challenging to not know anyone and come in. And so it'd be really great. If I go to a school with my sorority, I already have a network. I'll get to go to the meetings. I could be helpful and volunteer as part of the organization. And so I applied to go go and they said, okay, as long as you find your own housing. So my mom moved with me for a couple weeks. And when I went to class, because school had started, she would go look for apartments. And I remember when I was taking a tour of the school, they mentioned that Penn had this really amazing business school. They're like, this is the best business school in the country. And I said, oh, that's cool.
Ashley (21:09): So I kind of went off on that tour, but at Tulane, you don't join the business school until you're a junior. So really only juniors from Tula were joining the business school. Anyway, I got into the meeting by the time they figured out I shouldn't be there. I had already made my email address. So I started taking the business to school classes. Um, my dad calls me Mrs. McGoo. I just kind of kept going on. And that's honestly why I thrived at the school is there's so many cool opportunities. And I would just show up for them, like meeting with the chief investment officer of Johnson and Johnson. Like all the students are so busy that it ended up just being me showing up or like, and so having these really cool experiences and I loved it, I was going to apply to transfer officially to be able to stay.
Ashley (21:56): And I found a mentor. I actually reached out to the rabbi in our synagogue Naples and said, are there any alums here who can help me with my transfer application? I'm not sure what it should look like and just wants a mentorship. And he introduced me to someone and we met, we worked together on it and right around graduation. I got my rejection from the school that I didn't get in. And I was devastated. And I remember I called him crying. Like, didn't get in, thank you for all your help. I'm so grateful. And he said, wait, you're just gonna give up. And I was like, um, yeah, that's what happens with college. You don't get in and you give up. And he said, no, you can't give up. You have to keep fighting for this. If this is something that you really want. And so I emailed the Dean to set up a meeting and he, he responded, gave me a time after.
Ashley (22:49): And my mom had the idea that even though it was a phone call that I should physically be there. So I was standing outside the building, I called him and he said, where are you? And I said, I'm outside the building. He said, okay, come into my office. And he told me, this is just a random, funny part. But he told me to come into the east side and I came into the west side and he said, well, it's good. You're not a geography major <laugh>. Cause I just like great first impression <laugh> and we talked about why staying was so important to me, how my leadership roles, I wanted to continue them. I was in Wharton women. I was the personnel chair of my sorority. I really wanted to stay. And so he had me stay for summer school and if I got good grades, I could stay. So it's very cool. I have the rejection and then the official acceptance letter. And I remember after I got outta the meeting, my parents were like crying. I don't know what I thought would happen, but I didn't think it would be like that. For sure.
Stephanie (23:44): That is amazing.
Ashley (23:45): It was so funny. There was a Facebook group called let Ashley stay. It was like a, the whole school was behind me.
Harper (23:51): No, stop it.
Harper (23:55): What an incredible story. Even better than I expected it to be.
Stephanie (23:59): That's insane. And you just didn't give up.
Ashley (24:03): I would've thank goodness for the mentor.
Stephanie (24:06): Yeah. Mentors make a difference, right? Yeah. Were there other mentors that you found? I mean, obviously that one made a huge difference, but as you've gone on in your career, who else has given you that kind support?
Ashley (24:24): One of the, I think the most helpful kind of mentorship groups that I have is something that's more day to day. So I have a group of that's three other friends and we're in a WhatsApp group and we message each other pretty much all week, but it's for the little things like, can you look at this email or I'm gonna ask for this, what do you think? And what's so beneficial about that to me is that they know me, they know my tendencies, we know each other as bad habits or what we're trying to overcome. And we hold each other accountable and we call each other out when we're thinking small or not asking for enough, or just helping with the wording of an email, you know, that sometimes a little nuance or some different little changes can make the email have so much more power or different meaning. And I think sometimes mentors are people who they're, where you wanna be. And they're far from where you wanna be and they can be really motivational and give you that big piece of advice. Like for this specific negotiation of getting into Penn, that was like one of those. But then there's also the little moments every day that are really helpful to have guidance in because sometimes it's just hard to see through all of our stuff.
Harper (25:38): I love that you have that. I have people that are my go to for that. But the fact that you have sort of ongoing conversation and it goes back to the celebrating, the wins concept, which is so valuable. And for people to see you at all stages of your business and to see you grow and help you grow, there's so much value to that. Are there people who you look beyond yourself that are super successful in whatever way you define that, that you aspire to be more like or learn from
Ashley (26:11): My mom and dad are very inspirational to me. My mom is getting her PhD right now. And so she's like an ever grower, ever learner has built a really successful private practice. She's a therapist, but now she's shifted into the mental aspect of sports. So she works with a lot of child athletes and she started to podcast parenting peak performers, like how to be a better sports parent because they growing up, they were very intense sports parents <laugh> so she's, she's using her experience to teach. I don't think they were that bad, but she's very, very inspired to support other parents and that. So I think that is so inspirational to me and getting to see someone do what they love. That's a really incredible opportunity to have that as a growing up to get to see it. And then also my dad is an entrepreneur and he is kind of a model for that. You don't have to work hard. He works hard, but he also works smart. And he is, I just remember him like closing deals with us in his lap, eating ice cream, watching TV, you know, like you don't have to be at your computer 24 7 or in an office. Like he had a very flexible lifestyle and just getting to see how he defines success in that way and that he didn't have to do it. So traditionally was really inspirational to me.
Stephanie (27:28): Yeah. I think you came by this career very naturally. It sounds like from the examples you have from your parents, what a gift.
Ashley (27:35): Yes. Truly a gift as my business evolves, there's so many different facets or places that you can look for inspiration as things change. And, but I would say they're kind of like the very much north stars for it, but a lot of times mentors in my life, they might be just someone I'm looking to or reading about, oh, how did they do this? Or even just looking at their website or watching them speak, but they might not know their mentor <laugh> right. Or often they do. They do. And so, um, it can be either, or
Harper (28:09): I also think about when you talk about your parents being role models for you, what role that plays in your life with your kids and navigating your own decisions of how much time you spend working, how much time you spend with your family and creating that balance, especially in these last few years with COVID and with also having a son who went through a bit of a health challenge in his early years. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Ashley (28:37): Yes. My first introduction to work outside of what I saw at home as my role models was like hours. You work as hard as you can. You pretend you're working when you're not working. You know, I used to put something on my computer when I went home. So my screen would be light and yeah, all these tricks to look like you're just always working and I've had to work to unlearn that, that doesn't just fall off. So like one of my friends, she calls me very turbo and I'm very, I've really worked super hard over the last 10 years to grow this business. And we joke cuz my husband has more of a W2 job for finance companies and he works a lot less than me, but that has changed. Especially after my most recent book came out, I've taken a very conscious, not a pause.
Ashley (29:24): Obviously I'm still doing interviews and, and working, but just pausing other projects to take a breath, have more time. And it's something that I really haven't done too much over the last 10 years, Harper mentioned my son, my youngest son was born with a clef lip and pallet. And, and so he had a weekly doctor's appointment for, he was wearing something called a Nam to adjust his mouth. And we went into city every Friday. So that part of my business that was like half day, Friday, all of a sudden and three weeks for each recovery of surgery, I wanted to be there. That was important to me. And I don't honestly know if I was in a place in my business where I had the finances to carve out of substantial maternity leave. But for my second birth I did and I took three months off and I prepped things in advance and I had a team and I created that for myself.
Ashley (30:14): So that was, you know, some successes that outwardly might not look so successful. But to me felt like a very big deal getting to have that time to recover and have a maternity leave. Despite being an entrepreneur was a big deal. But it has, I think other people who might be less turbo than me might be able to find, or not need to have children to find that balance and to, but it was something that was very helpful to me to say, whoa, how am I spending my time? What work is worth time away from the kids in the morning and in the night on the weekends and to get the support, I need to work less and build the team. So it was kind of the thing that I needed to kind of force me to, to delegate.
Stephanie (30:57): Yeah. I think those forcing devices come to us, whether we're ready or not for them, right. Whether it's in the, in a package of a, a baby, we have to take care of or a move or something that's shifted in our careers that we didn't expect. I mean, we get it when we need it.
Ashley (31:13): Maybe, but, and looking back, like I deserve to have it before I had him, you know? And so that's, I think where there is regret, but the lessons come as you're ready to have them. And I was not ready at that time. I think. So I would say regardless of you have children or not, that balance is so important and creating that space for yourself to have time and take care of yourself.
Harper (31:37): What do you wish you knew prior to starting your business?
Ashley (31:41): There's a lot of focus on quick growth. You know, you see seven figure business, six figure business, and people talking about their top line success. First of all, we really should be focused more on profit, right? Like a seven figure business could be losing money and they could be going into debt, which I've talked to many people who, where that's happened. But I think there's a glorification of this growth and what I think happens and just news loves that, right? They love the huge wins, like overnight successes. They love the big losses, but there's less focus on this. You work, you build something, it takes a lot of time. And so something I didn't realize which now I'm, I'm not sure if it would be good if I knew this because maybe it would deter people from starting businesses, but it takes a long time to like to pay yourself, to have a sustainable business and to build something.
Ashley (32:37): And so I think there can, can be this shape in the beginning stages that you're not further that you're, it hasn't grown as much, but talking to so many entrepreneurs because I often help entrepreneurs with their personal finances and their business, finances that over and over again, it's like seven years to have a salary. You know, it's like seven, eight years that these businesses are working. And I don't think we talk about that enough, that first of all, it's imp it is helpful to know for our planning going into it. And of course it depends on the business. If we're starting something kind of more that people understand and that has, you know, it's, it depends on the business, but just that it can take a lot of time and to not feel bad about the journey and that we know we'll get there. I think if I knew I'd get there, I could have enjoyed it a little more something I wish I knew it's not necessarily about business, but I really felt shame about not knowing about money.
Ashley (33:31): And I think there's a lot of that. And especially someone with finance background, when I speak at banks, everyone raises their hand. Like I need to know more about money and personal finance that if we knew it was everybody we'd, we would realize we're not alone. And that when we're sitting across from our best friend at brunch, like they might be thinking and worrying about the same things too. So that's something that would've, I guess, removed a lot of shame and struggle if I, and also a big part of that too, is that if I knew that others were in the same place, maybe I would've had the confidence to figure it out myself rather than defer to other people who also didn't know <laugh> I remember sitting in my second job and one of my coworkers, a man was talking about this incredible investment idea and how it's gonna make a lot of money. And I felt so shameful that I don't have these ideas. I don't know what he's talking about. Meanwhile, he didn't either. Right. But I did it because I thought he did. And I was the only one who didn't understand this and I didn't wanna miss out. And so I do think also that feeling like we're alone has us trust people when we could also understand it too,
Harper (34:43): To your first point, the concept of planning to me like, yes, you can plan as an entrepreneur and you can come up with a business plan and write out ideas and have a vision. But so much of being an entrepreneur is being willing and open to know that there's gonna be tons of twists and turns, and it is not gonna go the way that you likely planned it to. And I think that a lot of people go like, I know what a is, and I know what Z is and I'll figure it out in between, but that Z is likely not going to be what you initially thought it would be. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs don't think about that going into it.
Ashley (35:21): It's so true. It's really true. And also that's something where COVID has been a big lesson to me, just because I am such a planner. And I think, you know, over the last six months, every plan I've had, whether it's personal or business like has changed, you know, things are canceled. Things are rescheduled things aren't happening. You know, having a book launch where you don't know if you can have in person events or it's all going to be digital. And it has definitely been a lesson in being more flexible. And I'm reminded of the book who moved my cheese, like the cheese never stopped. <laugh> I dunno, we'll ever be back to planning business as usual.
Stephanie (36:01): It certainly doesn't feel like it does
Ashley (36:03): It. Right.
Stephanie (36:05): So you've written two books. And I'm really curious to hear about, you know, from how you concepted to thinking about that whole process of using your voice in this fairly traditional way, given that you do have a large online business and digital and how that's gone for you and what you've learned from it
Ashley (36:27): To step back. When I had the blog, I had people start reaching out for help. And I had such an incredible experience with this life coach that I thought I wanna become one, two. So I went through a life coaching program and I focused on money. So I actually didn't have a financial training in that it was more on the behavioral and the coaching techniques. And I started seeing clients. And what I noticed was with the one on one clients, it really didn't matter if they were earning 30,000 or 500,000. I had people spanning that. I was saying a lot of the same things over and over again, especially as far as budgeting and changing how we're thinking about money, it being so restricting with the budget. So I thought I could help so many more people because my mom's a therapist. I see the traditional schedule of like hour, hour, hour.
Ashley (37:15): And I thought I could help more people and feel less drained because she's trained in that for me. If I have three clients in a day, I am wiped and that's really not a sustainable model, especially because I wanna charge at levels where I'm attracting people who are not being served by the financial advisors and the more expensive banks. So I created a program called the 30 day money cleanse. I at first was live just over the phone. I modeled it after a program. One of my friends was in, was, it was a food cleanse program and food and money are so similar that I actually had a call with her and we talked through it. And so I created this program and I ran it for five years. I ran it as live course as a audio course, and then I videoed it. So what was really cool about that is I got feedback.
Ashley (38:04): I got questions. I kept revamping it, redoing it. And by the time I recorded it for the 80th time, <laugh> I think a lot of the questions that came up or the inconsistencies or the things that were confusing were ironed out. And so when it came time to write that as a book, it just flowed because I had been speaking it for five years and writing it and had charts and everything. So it's funny. The first book was a lot easier than the second book where I created all of the content for the second book on the go, by doing interviews at the time of the first book, I didn't have a huge digital platform. So at first agents didn't really wanna meet with me. They said, you come back when you have a big platform books, don't sell themselves. You need to be able to sell these books to people.
Ashley (38:52): And then it ended up that there was some interest in a money and personal finance book. And so my agent ended up giving me a chance and we ended up getting a book deal with source books, who I loved working with. And they turned my book into a reality exactly how I envisioned it, colorful workbook, very accessible. And then what happened is that was really helpful for budgeting and money mindset. So I could say when someone came to me, like I said, read this book, but then if someone had a question about student loans or taxes or how to invest or really anything else, there was me pointing to an article or me writing something out or me doing one on one coaching. And I thought this next book is going to cover everything else that I think someone needs to know. So this is the guide that I wish I had when I got my first paycheck to understand everything about money.
Ashley (39:42): And my goal with it is that you read through it, it's super helpful, but maybe right now you don't need life insurance, but when it's time, you have it as a resource on your shelf to come back to. Or if your friend texts you, what the heck is happening with my 401k, you turn to chapter seven, you say, Ashley says this. Great. So I try to be really comprehensive with it also. I, my first book's all from my own perspective and that's one very privileged perspective, right? Like I've had very different situations that a lot of other people are having. And like we talked about the systems when it comes to money impact every single area. And so I wanted this book to be truly inclusive. So I interviewed 25 experts from all different backgrounds and expertise for the expertise because estate planning, right. I wanted to talk to an attorney. I talked to a divorce attorney. I talked to CFPs, which I'm now going through the process of getting my CFP.
Harper (40:37): Can you tell our listeners what that is?
Ashley (40:40): Yes. It stands for a Certified Financial Planner. Originally, I didn't wanna get it because I thought my whole mission is that you don't have to have some fancy degree or fancy letters after your name to understand this in interviewing for my book, I realized how nice it is to be able to just know that someone has this basic level of understanding. I'm getting it now that that was so cool. And it was also really humbling to see, like you mentioned, after 11 years <laugh> and I guess I, when I was interviewing, but how much I still was learning from talking to these people and just hearing about, okay, if you're selling your home as a black woman, how that looks different and what the tips are to navigate that versus a white person. So that was incredible. And I hired Dr. Cadet, who is the founder of Change Cadet to be my sensitivity editor.
Ashley (41:28): And so she was actually the first one who read the book and worked through that with me and changed everything from like, Hey, actually, black women have a different experience for this to maybe someone doesn't have a computer. We should not just say digital folder. We should say regular folder or paper folder. I learned so much through that process. And then from there, we went on to editing the book. And I think another part about financial adulting that was more challenging is when you interview 25 people, I didn't want anything to be incorrect. So having the interview then checking everything that's going into the book. Then my book was twice as long as it was supposed to be. <laugh> so cutting down half the book and then creating all the graphics, cuz it is a workbook as well. So I'm so proud of the book. And if I'm doing an interview on debt, pay down, I read my chapter, like, what do I have to say about this? <laugh> how did I, oh my gosh, I chop this down into one chapter. Like these are exactly the investing chapter is only what I think people need to know because there wasn't room for anything more.
Stephanie (42:32): Well, and I think too money, as you said, early on, you know, it's something that we all deal with and that so many of us feel so in the dark about. And then there's the additional wrinkle of how we experience our relationship with money is different depending on our background and our status. And in some ways, you know, the color of our skin and all the other things that you were able to uncover, and then there's this language that is confusing and there's acronyms and you can think you're a smart person, right. And even work like you did and investment banking. And still look at this and say, wait a minute. I'm not sure I understand what the best way is to pay down my debt. Or when I go to apply for a mortgage or what kind of estate planning you need to have. And you know, when a child is born versus when they're 18 and you know, it goes on and on and on from there. So the fact that you were able to, if you had to cut down that book. Man, I dunno, how you did that
Ashley (43:34): Part of the book is listing out everything we have working against us in general, then depending on your background, your race, your gender, if you're in the LGBTQ plus community, if you have a disability and it was clear to me in every single chapter, how it's affected, because when you earn less, you have less to invest, but then also due to discrimination, your mortgage is higher or now you have more debt or you're not in a job that offers a 401k. You know, it was so pervasive. So it was really important to me to be able to include that. And then I think that takes away a lot of the shame to understand all the things working against us, even if it is a little depressing at first, but oh, no wonder I'm not thriving in this area. And that is something I got so much from talking to people over and over.
Ashley (44:22): Like I am doing great in my career. I have great relationships. I have great friends. I have a wonderful life, but like, why can't I figure this out? And a lot of it is, there's a ton of reasons, but some of it you see is it is beneficial to keep people out because then they make mistakes or they need to hire people or they don't make these choices. And so to be able to boil down what you need to know, make it more accessible in how I translated it to myself, I think is what gets me excited about this work.
Harper (44:55): I think it's really clear that our listeners will love this book and need this book or both of these books. And we will be sure to link the books in the show notes so people can click and buy them and start educating themselves. What is one piece of advice that you would encourage our listeners to take? If they wanna start getting more confident around their finances?
Ashley (45:20): I'd say the biggest thing. And it doesn't matter where you are or what you're looking to achieve is small, consistent steps. I think with goals, especially with money, there can be this idea where I'm waking up tomorrow and I'm a whole new person and I have this whole different budget and I'm cutting all these things out, but that sets us up for failure because it's just too big of a jump and we don't have to be a different person tomorrow or change every habit in order to have success. If we're just taking a small action and it's relative what a small action is. For example, if tracking your spending or putting together a budget, sounds like there's no way I'm gonna do that. That's too big. Then break it down until it feels manageable. And what I've seen is that sometimes we might poo poo or belittle small steps, but our progress isn't linear. It's not like if I'm saving $5 this week, that it's going to take me a thousand years to save for a house. It becomes exponential because we build these habits. We take the small steps. We get started. Something that feels impossible, becomes a habit to us. I would say, break it down as small as you need to get started. If it feels daunting and map out steps that you can take over the next 3, 6, 9 weeks.
Harper (46:34): You taught me something years ago that has always stuck with me. Can you talk about what money parties are and their purpose?
Ashley (46:42): So a money party is time we set aside or put in the calendar to deal with our money, to show our money some love, because what happens is we're busy. We have a lot of things going on and it just gets pushed to the back burner. We don't do it if we don't set aside the time. So in a money party, it's a great time to look at your spending. What happened over the last month or the last week, depending on how frequently you have them, what do you want your spending to look like the next month? Are there any things you've been meaning to do like cancel a bank account or a subscription, or these can all happen during the money party. And I call them a party for a reason. I think we wanna reframe this time with our money to make it something we look forward to. So I now love money parties so much that they are the reward in itself. <laugh> like if I do something I don't wanna do, I get to have my money party after, but I understand most people are not like me. So you can put on some music, someone in a workshop that he loves ice cream. And now he's only having ice cream during his money parties to create this association.
Harper (47:47): Oh my god.
Ashley (47:47): Don't be that fast. That's
Harper (47:49): Phenomenal.
Ashley (47:50): You can have a beverage during it, like your favorite beverage, or you can even do them with friends right before the pandemic. I was hosting group money parties where we'd meet, we'd put on, I have a money party playlist and we'd sit down, do our numbers together. And then you can go off with your friends, do something. It can be something we do on our own. It can be something we do with our partners, our families, our friends, and play around with what makes it so that you look forward to that time.
Stephanie (48:20): It is so much nutrition and dieting. It's everything you put in your mouth, you know, one day to the next, these small steps or what causes you to be healthier. There's so many connections between these concepts. I can't wait for you to get into that arena too, you can solve all of our problems, Ashley <laugh>.
Ashley (48:41): But I do think that there is this like restrictive dieting, which doesn't work at the thing with restrictive budgeting is maybe it works for a very small percentage of people, but it also takes so much of the fun out of it. And so it is how, when you're viewing, like, let's say eating something makes you feel sick, but you're wanting something. It almost as a way to punish ourselves. And that happens with our spending too. Like we're keeping ourselves from the thing we want more than that thing right now. What is truly a treat? What is giving myself what I want most? And that can mean building in a bigger treat into your budget or paying down your credit cards or having a rainy day fund is actually more valuable or more beneficial to your mental and physical health than that thing that you want right now. And that's the same with food, right? Is this gonna make me feel good or am I eating it almost like to revenge myself? I think there's so many connections there.
Stephanie (49:36): So given that the podcast name is Good Enough For Now, what does it mean to you in your life or how you spend your time?
Ashley (49:48): I love the phrase Good Enough for Now. It's such a great phrase and it's such a great concept because I think they're in pretty much all of the areas we've spoken about in business entrepreneurship, in our finances, perfect, or perfection is really an enemy and this like moving forward growing looks very good enough for now versus perfect. Beautiful, shiny. So when you say it, I almost feel like a like warm and fuzzy and like it's a hug, you know, like you're doing good. You're okay. Just keep moving. You'll learn versus this unattainable thing that makes you not even wanna try,
Harper (50:35): Could not agree more. You can write all the language for our website. Thanks so much. <laugh> thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us. I always adore talking to you. So the fact that we could record it and share it with our listeners is even more special. Where can people learn more about you find you and get your books?
Ashley (50:55): Yes. So you can learn more@thefiscalfemme.com. That's our website @thefiscalfemme on all social media. We are now surprisingly to myself. Another thing I, another fear I tackled we're on TikTok <laugh>
Harper (51:11): Woo.
Ashley (51:12): One of our videos. This is so funny. I just finally made a reel in March with a lot of handholding and nudging and it went viral. One of them like 1.6 million people. And so it was covered in Newsweek and Daily Dot and all these things.
Harper (51:29): Oh my <laugh> that's incredible. You're a Tik Tok'er.
Ashley (51:33): I know who would've ever thought the books, you can get them on the website or financial adulting book.com.
Harper (51:40): Amazing. Thank you, Ashley.
Ashley (51:42): Thank you. This was so fun.
Harper (51:44): Awesome. Thank you.