Demystify Menopause, Advocate For Your Body with Amanda Thebe

Season 1

Nov 29

In this episode of Good Enough for Now, we hear from Amanda Thebe, Canada’s first menopause coach and educator, about her journey through perimenopause and how she mobilized her experience to enlighten and alleviate the transition for all women.

Get informed and learn how to advocate for yourself or other women you know as they move through this universally experienced yet poorly informed stage in their lives.

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LISTEN NOW

three reasons why you should listen to this episode:

Open your eyes about menopause, a life transition shared by all women.
Discover how to discern information from disinformation about symptoms associated with perimenopause and menopause.
Learn how to take control of the process to suffer less as you navigate confusing symptoms.

Resources

Visit Amanda’s website

Follow Amanda on Instagram

Join Amanda’s Facebook community

Follow Amanda on Twitter

Subscribe to Amanda on YouTube

Listen to Amanda’s Podcast

Discover Amanda’s Menopause Resources

Read Menopocalypse: How I Learned to Thrive During Menopause and How You Can Too! By Amanda Thebe

Highlights

We catch up with Amanda in Toronto, where she lives with her family. With nearly thirty years of experience in the fitness industry, she is the author of the Amazon best-selling book, Menopocalypse: How I Learned to Thrive During Menopause and How You Can Too! Through menopause advocacy and education, Amanda helps companies create a more gender inclusive and informed workplace where female employees feel supported.

I find myself on an evolutionary career path that I don't particularly need to have an end goal. I find that it really suits my personality. I love change, I love the unpredictable.

In her late thirties, she began feeling unlike herself. Her body and mind were confusing her--at times she had horrible migraines, and other times it felt like she was having a stroke. After an ER visit, she eventually went to her gynecologist, who informed her that what she was experiencing was completely normal.

I don't recognize myself. I'm lost. It's impacted my quality of life, my new career, my relationship with my husband, my children and the relationship with my friends. I'm not social anymore. I've literally become the person I've always dreaded and I don't know what's going on. And I just went on this big rant and he said… “Oh yeah, it's perimenopause. I see women like you every day and hey listen, I can help you. You don't need to suffer. You're not losing your mind, you're just losing your estrogen. This is really normal ”.

Despite the fact that 75% of women who go through menopause will have one or more symptoms and 25% of women who go through menopause will have severe symptoms that impact their quality of life, Amanda found herself completely in the dark about perimenopause and how to frame this transition in her life.

I was just furious. I was glad I had answers actually. But then I was just mad as hell.

She channeled her anger into the book Menopocalypse: How I Learned to Thrive During Menopause and How You Can Too!, where she speaks candidly about her experience and puts together the facts she learned and put to use to thrive along the way. At first, no one wanted to pick it up because no one wanted to address menopause. Despite this, the book became an Amazon best seller.

Since then, Amanda has been on a mission to normalize the conversation around menopause, its symptoms, setbacks and solutions. For her, the way forward is accessible education about menopause––not just for women, but for everyone.

The answer should just be education. So now all of the medical organizations, menopause societies have a position statement, they have prescribing guidelines and they have a medical consensus. It's all there. Sometimes that's a bit heavy to read, which is sort of why I filtered that down into my book.

Seismic change happens through menopause, making it an incredibly confusing experience to go through. Hormone levels fluctuate and the brain actually begins to shrink. Having resources and a guidemap to the journey alleviates some of the experience and ensures that women don’t suffer through it.

I started taking care of myself. And it was an alien concept to me, and it is to many other women because we're nurturers by nature, even if we don't have children, a lot of us just ultimately want to care and look after other people. And even getting my nails done felt almost like a guilty pleasure. And I realized that that had to stop because I was floundering and I wasn't thriving. And ultimately that impacted everybody else around me.

What Good Enough For Now means to Amanda:

Why are we fighting what's happening when we know our body is meant to do this? Right? And if it's impacting us on a physical, emotional, and neurological level, then why don't we, first of all, seek help if needed? But then instead of fighting, say, what's gonna support me right now? What's the best thing my body needs right now?

Why don't we just work with where we are? Because to me it's a transition and being good enough for now to me is a win. It's not a sense of failure. It's like I made it.

ABOUT

Amanda Thebe is a Fitness and Women’s Health Expert with nearly thirty years of experience in the fitness industry, she is the author of the Amazon best-selling book, Menopocalypse: How I Learned to Thrive During Menopause and How You Can Too!. As Canada’s first menopause coach and educator, Amanda provides on-site or virtual educational presentations in the workplace to improve productivity, retention and attendance for female employees through menopause. Amanda is a popular guest on podcasts, radio, tv and online summits, and her health and fitness tips have been featured in media outlets like Shape, Prevention, Health Line, CBC Radio, Global News Canada, The Doctors, Lifehacker, Breaking Muscle, Girls Gone Strong, and Ultimate Sandbag Training. She lives in Toronto, Ontario.

Harper (00:01):
Welcome Amanda. We're so happy to have you here today.
Amanda (00:04):
Yes, I'm very happy to be here and super excited to support you both. This is exciting.
Stephanie (00:10):
Yeah, and what I love about this is we all have those communities of people, some of which we already know everyone and some of which are connected to us by others. And the fact that Amanda, you and I are connected through our husbands who once worked together and then we both individually were doing, you obviously have many, many years of experience in your work and doing the podcast and your book and all the work you're doing around women's health and menopause. And then I was starting this podcast and I just love this connection that we have made. So thank we
Amanda (00:46):
Of we've of got parallel lives. We, we've always got husbands in an executive position who are really into sport <laugh> and then they're really endurance athletes. And then you and I who are doing this work to really support women through midlife. There's a bit of synchronicity there. Yeah,
Stephanie (01:06):
I love that. I love that. So I'm so glad to have you on,
Harper (01:09):
Excited to chat with you. So tell us, where are you in your life right now?
Amanda (01:15):
Well, I'm physically located in Toronto, but that's not the question you asked for. I just wanted to represent Canada. Where am I? Where am in my life? It's really funny. I think I'm in, I said this to somebody the other day that I find myself in a position where I've created my own job. I've got a made up job title and I'm okay with that. So I used to work for ibm, I've been in that structured corporate environment and I haven't been in that for about 20 years, actually since about the time I had my kids. And I find myself on an evolutionary career path that I don't particularly need to have an end goal. I find that really suits my personality. I love change, I love the unpredictable, I'm like people who say I hate change and I have to eat the same thing all the time.
(02:08):
And I'm just like, how can I change everything up every day? And that's where I am. So I mean my sort of position though is to represent women through menopause and that just came about through personal circumstances where I was unsupported and really struggled with my health and my quality of life amongst other things. And about, gosh, I think I was 42, 43 when that started happening and I'd already got a position in the fitness and wellness world. That's my career path is I'm a personal trainer and nutritionist and then started talking about menopause in what the fuck type way because nobody was talking about it then. And they are now though, but not enough still. And wrote a book, started building a community. I have a Facebook community with 16,000 women in and it's a community, it's not a sales place. I don't sell anything.
(03:07):
I just want women to talk to one another cuz isolation probably was the worst thing for me. And then it's just evolved and evolved and evolved. I'm doing more speaking things are actually Steph doing more corporate talking because the workplace want to be informed. They want to be supportive and have compassionate conversations with their female employees without diminishing the fact that women have fought for equal rights for all this time. So how do you have that complicated conversation in the workplace? But we have to have it cuz we're losing really creative, amazing, intelligent women. They're leaving, leaving the workplace. And so that's some of the conversations I'm having. And so I'm on this path and it, it's fine works for me.
Stephanie (03:53):
And as you described your own so many times in and on our guests on the show, oftentimes we get the stories of I had an issue, I saw a need, I worked to fill that need and that's what launched my business, my life, my company, et cetera. And here you are, someone who was in the nutrition and physical wellness health space and even with all that knowledge you went through a period of your menopause to menopause state saying as you so aptly put it, what the fuck? I don't have the knowledge. So you created of your own encyclopedia of knowledge through that experience. Can you talk about when your gynecologist asked you, is everything okay and of the floodgates open and how that experience was?
Amanda (04:50):
Yeah, I can and my story super similar to lots of women and it gets really tiresome listening to the same story over and over again for many women, and I don't mean Tyson cause I don't wanna hear them, but Tyson that were still beaten this same bloody drum that no ones hearing in the medical community. So I started to feel unwell about two years prior to the gynecology appointment, early forties and I'd symptoms of vertigo, nausea, I would lose feeling in my face and my hands down one side of my body. I literally felt like I was having a stroke. And so that resulted in, I'm in Canada, really great healthcare system, it's universal. My doctor was all over it like a rash. The I'm always trying to be funny and I don't mean to be <laugh>, sorry. But he sent me to a neurologist and then I saw one fairly quickly had then MRI scans, had a CAT scan.
(05:49):
I then got referred to an ear, nose, throat doctor had balance testing induced and I went through two years of testing. I even went to the ER room, emergency room one time because I just felt like I was seriously ill. I thought that something was terribly wrong and every time I would wake up on the morning dreading it cuz I knew that this was gonna happen again, I was like, oh god, is this my life now? It was miserable and I'm not a miserable person. But on top of all of that I had really bad depression, which was new to me. So I go for a well woman checkup at my gynecology actually had ovarian cyst. I'm one of them CTI women, I think there's lots of us out there. And I'd had a ovarian scan and I just went for the results and he said, Yeah the fine, you're good, you can go home.
(06:40):
And then I just didn't stand up. He went, Is everything okay? And that's when I started crying and I just said, No, I just, what? What's going on? I don't recognize myself. I'm lost. It's impacted my quality of life, my new career, my relationship with my husband, my children and the relationship with my friends. I'm not social anymore. I've literally become the person I've always dreaded <affirmative> and I don't know what's going on. And I just went on this big rant and he said, Oh yeah, it's just menopause. Well he didn't say it flippantly. He said, Oh yeah, it's perimenopause. I see women like you every day and hey listen, I can help you. You don't need to suffer. You're not losing your mind, you're just losing your estrogen. He was the one that said that to me and it made me chuckle and he went, so this is perimenopause.
(07:33):
And my question was what's per menopause? Cause I'd never heard of it anyway. Well it's the lead up to menopause and I'm like menopause. And I had all of these exclamation marks going off around my head cuz I was like why I'm 42, 43. I can't exactly remember the age if I'm honest, but early forties. And he went, Yeah, this is really normal. And I was just furious. I was glad I had answers actually. But then I was just mad as hell. And so I wrote this blog and I think I called it the site that nobody told me about and it went sort of viral for me about 70,000 downloads. And I was like, oh wow. The comments were crazy. It was a women were like that, that's me. So that sort of was this the start of this evolution and I just was very frustrated by the lack of awareness, knowledge, education, support, community, everything. Lack of conversation, who was talking about it? Nobody. And I realized I wasn't alone as well.
Harper (08:40):
What's so wild about this is that it's so common. This is not a rare disease, this is something that so many women go through. But because it's a women's issue, it's not talked about regularly and publicly. And I think it's no different than we're just getting into more fertility related conversations and miscarriages and all that's going on with women regularly. Amanda, just making sure you're there cuz you're frozen on my end. You are. Okay. So as someone living with an invisible illness and a rare disease myself, when I listened to your podcast where you were talking about this experience of having this doctor really see you and understand you, it's refreshing to hear cuz so many people in the rare disease community talk about how they don't feel seen, they don't feel heard, no one gives them more than five minutes of time. And I think what you are doing is so empowering to help support other women talk about this as opposed to just living it through your own body, your own experiences navigating on a day to day. But you've chosen to go out and publicize this topic. Topic. Can you talk about how you decided to write a book about it?
Amanda (09:56):
Yeah, I mean the very minute that I said the word vagina out loud on a podcast, I was like, well that does being opened so there's no turning back essentially <laugh>. And it was the same with writing the book. I wrote the book Stephanie May know this, my husband is very, very private. He has a LinkedIn profile just because he was meant to have one, you wouldn't know who he was. And every single picture that I post, I have to get approval. So I just don't post them and I respect that about him. And then I wrote this book and I was like, you have to read this because you are in it type thing. I don't use his name actually, but I talk about my husband and he read it and he went, Yeah, it's just data, it's fine. He could see that it really had a purpose.
(10:41):
But it's interesting because you know said so many women go through this, Well actually all women if they live long enough go through this. And the stats are of really important to appreciate. So the stats are 75% of women who go through menopause will have one or more symptoms. 25% of women who go through menopause will have severe symptoms that impact their quality of life. And a lot of women, I think there's the numbers in the sixties, seventies, depending on the study in the statue you look at don't know anything about it. So it's a reproductive phase of our lives that we will all go through and it's not taught in schools, it's not spoken about. And I just was like, and I might just also add there, and I'm not trying to diminish the women that go through this in a forced manner of people can go through it in early menopausal through chemo and surgical.
(11:33):
And that's a whole of the conversation. It's a bit more challenging for those women. But I just got to the point where I was like, I'm writing about this and I have articles out there and I'm talking in my community group and I have all this knowledge about exercise and nutrition that still stand stands, the information doesn't change through menopause is definitely some nuances. There's definitely things we need to look at, but I could talk about these with a decent amount of authority now I just need to fill in the gaps that I don't know. And so I just had a body of work that I just thought, why don't I pull together in a book? I just relocated to Texas for four years with my husband's job and I didn't wanna take on personal training clients. I just felt like it was a really good time.
(12:19):
And so I wrote the book, got it edited. Nobody want, nobody wanted it, Nobody because it was menopause insert eye roll. It's like, yeah, even Harper just did an eye roll. It's literally one of them topics where people are like, yeah, no. But then honestly three, four years on now literally women are desperately saying to people, we have to talk about this, we have to have more books on this. And we have our own section in Amazon now, so you know what it's talking about it, there's lots of us out there doing this. So it's like this tempest of women that are building up and saying, listen to us about time.
Stephanie (13:00):
Well I think too, what's so fascinating and I have read your book and the way that you show your own vulnerability as you tell your story in that book and it's very much the way you speak, it's so conversational, it's such an easy read. It doesn't feel like you're not preaching, you're not beating a drum, you're saying this happened to me. And even with all of my own professional knowledge, I still didn't understand what was going on. I still didn't know what questions to ask and this will happen to you. So here's how I wanna help you understand what might be happening and give you some tools. And I think the way that you frame that makes it so accessible. It's not some kind of hard technical knowledge that we all have to have or have to find only the correct medical professional to help us. It's very practical. And so I would encourage everybody to get a copy of it. Men Apocalypse Apocalypse. So amazing title <laugh>,
Amanda (14:08):
Well I love the title, but then I was like, God does it sound like the end? And one of the things I I'm really tired of in this sort of conversation is the negative connotations that this is a diseased or deficient state, which isn't backed by the medical community by the way. They don't treat it like that, which is actually why it's been ignored for so long. But there's lots of natural things that we go through that we still need help for. So we do need the education within the medical community. But I was reading these books, I was reading the medical textbooks and then I was reading these comedy books that were almost a bit too flippant. It was almost like disparaging. And I was like, no, I want a really strong evidence based book. And it is that all the references are in there, but it has to be palatable because brain fog, anybody, memory retention, anyone. So it it's almost like you best mets guide to menopause <laugh>.
Stephanie (15:02):
Yeah, and I think that the other part of it too is you have a new generation of women in their forties and fifties that have grown up Gen X if you wanna call it that right beginning and now we're getting into the elder start of part of millennials where we've had access to information. We understand that we can talk about things openly because we've used either social media or we've been on email or connecting with people in a way that our mothers and grandmothers certainly didn't. Maybe they chatted around the table or in their neighborhoods or at dinner or at wherever they were. But the message is able to be amplified and shared a bit more broadly because of the way we all communicate with one another. So I love that we as women have a better chance hopefully
Amanda (15:57):
<laugh>, I couldn't agree on what
Stephanie (15:59):
Covers back on this a bit for everyone that comes after as well.
Amanda (16:05):
And I think speaking to my niece and speaking to other Gen Zs, I suppose those, they're not gonna stand for this where if it was them they would be all over this. And so I feel like we're paving the way for the next generations and I have two boys who know what menopause is and whether they like it or not, it's now something they're aware of. But they're partners, potentially daughters, nieces, they're gonna be there to support them. And that's a really important part of the conversation too.
Harper (16:37):
And I think that's a good point. I love that you bring that up about your sons because I'm sure there's many sons of all ages that have no idea cuz this doesn't affect them. So they think it has no bearing on their lives. So why should they be educated on this? Some of our listeners are just having children, others have been. Can you share with our listeners a bit about what advice you would give for making sure that you advocate for your health and your wellbeing and figure out what choices you have in managing it?
Amanda (17:10):
Yeah, so it's super simple that the answer and it's just be just education. So now all of the medical organizations, menopause societies have a position statement, they have prescribing guidelines and they have a medical consensus. It's all there. Sometimes that's a bit heavy to read, which is sort of why I filtered that down into my book. My website actually lists all of the resources on there. If anyone's interest, just my name amanda th.com. And there's a resources guide there for the country that you are in. But if you are somebody that wants to be proactive, honestly I would just say just become knowledgeable so that at least you're not going into this blinkered because that's the worst thing. And then when you actually understand what is gonna happen to you and it may be a good experience, it may be a challenge and experience, at least you're aware of what it is.
(18:02):
So you can go to your medical professional if that's the choice you make and say I need help. This is what the guidelines tell me that you have to give me, literally go in and say I want this, this and this because the treatment options available are safe, they're supported by all of the medical organizations. And then even if you are not symptomatic and things start to feel differently and maybe the way you feel about yourself, I mean one of the biggest things I hear women say is that they don't recognize themselves, they feel less confident, their module's gone, they can't be bothered to work out, can't be bothered to have sex, put the makeup on, wash their hair, all of these things. And there's such a seismic change happening through menopause. Our brain actually shrinks. It's a really incredible phenomena. I'm part of a study in New York that scans the female brain and it's a part of an Alzheimer's study and they know in perimenopause is our reproductive hormones start to decline.
(19:01):
I'm actually doing it with my hand and nobody can see me do this, but it makes me feel your brain actually shrinks and it shrinks to be able to cope with the lack of reproductive hormones and then paused menopause, which is the time after your periods have stopped in that three to five year window. The brain regrows, rebounds, rejuvenates. And so we have the body's so smart, it's brilliant and we have this way of being able to cope with things. But during that transition when things are happening, it can be super, super challenging. So don't suffer. But then also know that it's not always gonna be like that. I said to you sometimes I was waking up going, I just don't think I can carry on being this person. I'd have known then that this was a transition and not something that was permanent. I think my attitude to this would've been different. And so it's just having those type of conversations saying it's actually a great opportunity to be able to maybe look at what's important in your life, set some boundaries, say no more often, take care of you instead of everybody else to phenomena put yourself first. And all of these things are just small steps you can take to just finding the place that you want to be
Stephanie (20:19):
<affirmative>. So two things popped into my mind as you were talking and I'll address one at a time. So as you mentioned, there's more information, more openness that's beginning about menopause and the face that takes on in a woman's life. Just like with many things that become out in the open, there's an industry, there's a commercialization that happens. And one of the things I love about your Instagram channel and the things that you posted is debunking some of the misinformation and whether it be diet, Sorry, let me back up. I'm gonna say that again. The misinformation that's being handled, whether it be we'll help you get off the menopause weight gain by giving you an enema. I don't know what the hell this stuff is, <laugh>. And as well as take these 20 supplements don't take hormones, this will be better. Can you talk a little bit about how women can look at the landscape of what is being served up to them about menopause and helping them through the transition? How to discern?
Amanda (21:33):
Yeah, it's a great question. What are the red flags and what are the green flags? Who are the people you should be pulling yourself towards? And it's really interesting cuz you said an animal, it wasn't a thing and it is a thing. <laugh>. <laugh> in naturopathic, of course it's in naturopathic medicine. One of the things that I have been, I get sensed to all the time is a coffee for getting rid of excess, excess toxins in your intestines. It's shocking. And it's just like drinking. I'm drinking coffee, don't stick it up your butt. It's crazy.
(22:11):
The world's gone mad. And so what I found is really interesting, if you are in the middle of the road, somebody like us three where were intelligent women who understand and can have a good conversation about most things and have some critical thinking skills, I find that even if you're drawn into the compelling argument that some of these products make you can usually go hang on a minute is something doesn't feel right about this? Go with your gut. A lot of the time when people send me things and they go, I don't know something about this doesn't feel right. And I'm like, why are you asking me? You've literally just answered your own question. And so sometimes it's more than obvious. And so there's a couple of ways to do this is firstly you can curate what you see. So do that, make sure you're following people are evidence based. And then also if that person that you are following says something that you really don't feel good about, actually say, Can you show me the data on that? Can you explain the reason that you've said that? Don't just blindly follow, ask the question.
(23:24):
But then on the other side of things, this is a multi-billion dollar industry. And so while hormones were vilified for a long time and they aren't anymore by the way, if anyone's listening while they like the snake oils, men just jumped in and were like, well we can fill the gap, but it doesn't need to have evidence behind it, it doesn't need to have data. So for example, I called out this company recently who were so toxic in their market and it was like zap your men, men or belly and it's just the way, and it's just so disgusting the way they talk. But then they'll say things like, and get rid of toxins and get rid of joint pain and hot flashes. And I'm like sat there going, Well first of all, don't talk to me like that. Secondly, where are these studies that show me that your probiotic actually does all of these things?
(24:18):
Cuz doesn't, no hard data for that yet. But if you are a consumer, how do you know that? And so if it sounds too good to be true, then it is your healthcare shouldn't cost you hundreds of dollars every month. And I, and unfortunately we're in a world where it is, but if I have women coming to me saying I'm spending two or $300 a month on supplements, that's like again, I'm just like, that's a red flag stop pen out for expensive testing and supplements. Supplement industry is unregulated <affirmative>, you literally don't know the quality of the supplements you are taking. And if you are deficient in something, cuz you, you've had blood work from your doctor that's told you, then there's ways of trying to find high quality supplements, but there's still not regulated. So go for over the counter stuff instead of the $600 a month solutions.
(25:11):
And so it's just really hard, but there's misinformation and disinformation in all industries and the misinformation is where people just misinterpret data studies and maybe try and help their followers, but maybe you've got something wrong. We've all done it, I've done it, you've done it. It's just the way of the world is. But the disinformation is the stuff that I hear where it's just blatant lies or it's toxic or it's gist or it's just exploitation. So yeah, I mean I'm okay doing it, but I dunno if you notice, I don't personally attack people. I always just said this is what, if it's a company I'm doing it saying this is what this company's product claims to do, but this is what we know. So how about you just don't support them? Or if it's these crazy claims, how about you just actually report them? And what's happening now is in Australia, they're clamping down on companies like this. The advertising standards associations are just now starting to either find these people, make them take the products down or the websites down. And so I think that if you think it doesn't make a difference reporting these things, I think it can help and think about doing it. I report people all the time. I do
Harper (26:33):
<laugh>. So glad you said that because I'm thinking about, I remember being in a new business meeting at my last job before I started my business and it was with a company that made packets of powder to make green juice and you just mixed it with water. And I remember saying to the PR person, So what's the shelf life? And she just sat there in silence. She had no idea, They never thought to even explore that because it doesn't have to be FDA approved. So this thing could sit on the shelf in Whole Foods for five years and they don't know that it's good or bad for you. So I love that you do that and I love that you're encouraging people to advocate for themselves to get the right answers. Cuz I think people just go through TikTok and Instagram or wherever and just assume that it's all facts, which I think, I hate to compare to politics, but it's no different.
Amanda (27:26):
No different at all. I mean the latest thing that I had, which was cracked me up is that eating excessive amounts of carrots can detox, which isn't a medical term anyway, your excess estrogen. And I'm like, I have so many questions. I have so many questions. Also, do you remember in the eighties when everyone was trying to lose weight and eating carrots and we all turned orange because this tea? Yeah, exactly.
Stephanie (27:54):
Oh
Harper (27:55):
My god. My high school French teacher used to accuse me of being a smoker because I ate so many carrots and my hands were orange and I never had a cigarette in my life. And I kept being like, I promise. She goes, I see the kids going around the corner smoking. I'm like, I'm not one of them <laugh>. But really these random things that just come out of, I saw something recently about how ad people who take Tylenol get autism. I was speechless when I
Amanda (28:30):
Saw That's offensive. That's offensive. And as a child and as a mother of a child who is on the spectrum makes me furious. Makes me furious.
Stephanie (28:42):
So disinformation, debunking that, asking questions, getting a sense for if your gut tells you that it's probably too good to be true, it is.
Amanda (28:51):
And then curating your feed, Stephanie, definitely look around you. And then there's some really great doctors and scientists on there that are providing actual data. And I think that it's easy to do <affirmative>.
Stephanie (29:04):
And we also have the celebrity culture. So we have celebrities that are talking about this or maybe they have their own brands. And I know that you were just involved in a launch by Naomi Watts who's involved in a new company. So can you tell me a little bit about that and what you learned from a company that I'm assuming because you were involved, you think it's doing the right things? Yes. Of a good example of how these issues are being addressed.
Amanda (29:38):
How can celebrity culture be used correctly, possibly in the right way? And so I mean to me, we're talking about how we don't a message because we've seen how celebrities can cause harm. And I don't just mean selling stuff that we don't know that if it works or not, there's no evidence but actually causing harm. This products that cause harm. And so in the UK it's a great example because there's a lot of celebrities, people all say they're bandwagon like the menopause conversation. And it's interesting because no, there was grassroots movements. It's been happening for five or six years and then the minute that a celebrity comes on board, people listen. And so I actually think that's a good thing. It fits with the right intent. I think that using a larger voice to reach more people isn't a bad thing as long as they stay in their lane and they talk about, I do, I'm an advocate, an educator, I'm not telling people what they should and shouldn't be doing.
(30:40):
Like saying this is the information as we know it, right? Sometimes I see that line being crossed. I was on Twitter the other day and some celebrity was telling someone what medication she should be on. And I was like, Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, that's not okay. And so we've got that. The celebrities that have got the loud voice, as long as it's a representative voice, and sometimes I don't think that is happening. So sometimes I'm seeing celebrities who their lives have changed after going on hormone on therapy and that's great, but there's plenty of women that can't go on it or don't do well on it. And so there was a documentary in the UK that happened by Davin and McCall and then what happened is Hormone on Therapy ran out in the uk they called it the Davi Effect. And so women were like, I recognize myself in Davina, I would like to have hormone therapy.
(31:31):
I'm gonna go and speak to my doctor about it. But then there was a whole lot of other women going, Well what about me? You've literally just ignored me and now I feel even more excluded. I'm a best breast cancer survivor. I'll never be able to go on home on therapy according to my medical provider. So how about you see me too? And so that's part of the conversation for me. I'm make sure we're inclusive. It isn't just about getting access to medications, it's access to education in the workplace, in schools. And so that's happening in the uk. But then we have the other side of things where the celebrities selling things, they're using their platform to sell things that we don't know are proven. And so that's where I do stop and pause and think, well are you doing this for yourself? Are you doing this for others?
(32:22):
You can't be completely altruistic. I understand that we all have to make a living, but do it ethically and morally. So actually when I saw Naomi Watts launch her brand, she's about the fourth or fifth celebrity to do something in the us I was invited to be part of something and I couldn't actually couldn't be at the meeting they asked. And then I spent about three or four months watching and looking at the conversation and then finding out exactly why she was doing this. And after and then having a conversation with her, she was like, Listen, I'm so angry that I went through an early menopause with no help, no support. My industry told me I was unfuckable. I dunno if you wanna beep that one out, but that's what they said to her. And she just was like, You know what? This is terrible.
(33:10):
I'm aging out of the only job I've ever done that I love. I'm not getting medical support, haven't had my children yet and I'm panicking that I'm gonna be in menopause and not have children. And it was a dream of mine. And so there was all these conversations and she just said, I realized that I could get through this when I had support community education and she's actually investing in a menopause institute to do funding to do more research and to find out other challenges that women have. And so I just felt like she was a real genuine person. And there is a brand though. So that was one of the things, how do I align with somebody that has a brand? And it's easy because I don't find there's a conflict. She literally said, my skin changed. Everything went dry from my scalp to my badge, which is true by the way.
(34:00):
And she said I wanted everything hydrating and that's what it is. It's a skincare line. And I, I've got some to try, I haven't tried it yet, but literally that's me. I'm like a gecko, my skin falls off. It's awful and dry. And so I don't feel like there's an unethical brand and she's also tried to make it with sustainable materials. She's also got that sort of side happening. But it, it's part of what she's doing. It's not what she's doing. And I think that's the difference. She really wants to make a difference. Like she's saying, how can we drive change in the US and Canada and around the world, the UK doing how can we impact policies and get into women's communities and into the healthcare system. So she really wants to make a difference.
(34:50):
That's great. That's great. Also, she's so super stylish and it was so cool to hang out with her. I was like, Oh my God, wait for that <laugh>. Well, I got invited to go to Los Angeles. The first thing I said was, What am I gonna wear? Because I don't do fashion very well. So it was actually, it was a fun and exciting time, but it was actually as well as it looking very sort of glamorous. It was very grounding. And when she did this launch party and this fantastic huge house that we'll never know and it's not my world, et cetera, it was all of her friends. It wasn't a celebrity party. It was really nice people, women who were like, I needed this information. And it was just very, very grounding and it just solidified that she's a good player in this game.
Stephanie (35:39):
That's great. Yeah. Just like I find myself, and I'm sure you do too, Amanda, and I'm sure you do as well, Harper, where you may be the one at the table or at the cocktail party that's saying as a friend is lamenting something about maybe she thinks she might be experiencing some kind of health condition or she's worried about brain fog or how she's feeling. I find myself being that person. And I initially worried I was the crazy Pollyanna saying things and be like, Well, have you talked to your doctor? Have you asked about these questions? Because I went through this and I start telling my whole story about how I was made crazy thinking there was something wrong with me not knowing. And for me it was menopause and perimenopause. And everyone has a different version of this healthcare journey story where once you figure out that you can find solutions, you wanna tell everybody about it because that's what we do as women, We talk.
Amanda (36:45):
That's what we do as women. That's exactly right. It's the lived experience matters. We can't ignore that. And that's how women shared things throughout all of our generations. Ran the coffee table out for a few drinks and having these conversations. I agree completely.
Stephanie (37:02):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean I probably recommend my doctor once every couple weeks and it can be to a friend that I've known really well and talked to all the time. We just haven't hit on this topic yet. And then it happens even yesterday Harper and I are in this writing group together. And before it started, I don't know Harper if you were on yet when this conversation happened, but we have a cancer survivor who was thrown into menopause through her treatment. There's me, I'm, I'm 51, there's another woman who just turned 50. And then there's our leader who's in her forties and just had her first child not long ago. And we all write very intimate details about our lives. We know a lot about each other. And we ended up having a menopause conversation and a hormone therapy conversation as we were getting into our writing group yesterday that none of us have discussed. So that
Amanda (37:58):
That's unusual. But 10 years ago that wouldn't have happened.
Stephanie (38:02):
No way. It was like you wouldn't talk about that. I mean I ask my mom, Mom, do you remember when you went through? Oh, I don't know. It just sort of happened. I don't remember. And I'm like, Wait, I was 20. You were in your early forties and I remember you having ridiculous period periods because you would complain about them. So that had to have been it, right? So when I was 42, 43 and experiencing perimenopause, I was like, Oh, maybe this isn't early. But nobody talked about it.
Amanda (38:32):
But I think it's a little bit like childbirth. I had horrible pregnancies, Horrible to the point where after my first child, I didn't wanna be pregnant again. I just had nausea the whole way through and I just was a mess the whole way through. And I also really couldn't cope with it size of my boobs. It just, I mean it's really, But they literally were ruining my life. They were just so huge. They were these big, big cows ud. And anyway, and so I did,
(39:03):
I didn't love being pregnant. The babies popped out super quick. I had very easy births and then I forgot about how horrible pregnancy was. And it's the same I think with menopause. For me, perimenopause was actually quite traumatic. And if I ever get a migraine again, cuz that was one of my issues, or I start to feel like depression coming on, which really doesn't happen very much. I do get a bit of, I don't wanna call it PTSD cause I don't wanna downplay what that is, but it is traumatic for me. But ultimately I think that we are quite, we're so resilient as women that we just have this ability to be able to just forward, forge forward and of put that down to experience and stuff. But it's lost in that, right? Something's lost because the conversation needs to happen. And I had a conversation with my sister-in-law, my mom and my niece, and there was three conversations.
(39:58):
My mom was like, I wish I'd had somebody to talk to about it cuz it wasn't easy for me. My sister-in-law was like, I'm just gonna be all over this. There's no way this is gonna happen to me. And my niece was furious. She was like, How is this not taught in school? This is shocking. I'm not putting up with this crap. So that she was stomping her feet about it. So I just think it's like this e evolution and I can hear from in my mom's votes that it was missing and it made it harder for her.
Stephanie (40:26):
Yeah. And you mentioned migraines. That's how the conversation started. Somebody had a migraine and I said, Oh, do you realize that that can be symptom of perimenopause? What? Oh no.
Amanda (40:38):
Because it doesn't sound hormonal, does it? Right. Cause a lot of the symptoms are neurological almost because I've just told you the brain shrinks and estrogen is a metabolizer in the brain. Estrogen impacts about 200 systems in our body. So my joint saw is that perimenopause? Yeah, my tongues tingly and my gums are bleeding more. Is that a perimenopausal symptom? Yeah, I've got tinnitus. Is that a symptom? Yeah. We know these are symptoms, but we also don't know the symptoms. So we to,
Harper (41:09):
There's a warning signs. I think that's the big thing. And we talked about this in other categories of topics around money with Ashley Feinstein in a previous episode of topics that are not addressed in school that would be so much more relevant to our lives than a lot of the crap that we learned in high school or in college or younger years and how valuable this would be. Cuz to your point, every woman goes through this period end of story. It's just wild to me how much is not addressed. And even as a 37 year old, I don't know anything you're talking about, this is foreign to me, but it's gonna happen at some time in my near future. So I think it's like what point do I decide, okay, this is something that I should be paying attention to. Cause it's gonna be relevant to
Amanda (42:00):
Me. Exactly. And as a 37 year old, it probably doesn't feel tangible either. I know it didn't. To me, I just had my last child then. But things started to change for me after the age of 38, about when perimenopause can start. For some women they'll see some things changing. And then the other part of the conversation is that you're then menopausal for the rest of your life. And it isn't just a thing you go through. I mean, you're in a whole new playing field potentially for 30, 40, 50 years after you go through menopause and you're almost like puberty reverse because you're back with these low levels of hormones that your body has to adjust to. And you have to start taking control of your health and looking after yourself in this new playing field. And so that's another thing I've, like, women have said to me, Oh, I went through menopause ages ago. And I'm like, No, you're still in your menopausal right now. Let's just get vocabulary. Right definitions. Yeah. Talk about it correctly.
Stephanie (43:01):
The only constant is change, right? Yeah. Continues on.
Amanda (43:06):
Continues. Yeah. And I told you I like change though. Like I said, so bring it on. <laugh>.
Stephanie (43:10):
I
Harper (43:11):
Have to say I, I'm really curious to hear more about that and where that stems from. Is that something from your childhood or early years? Because I think it's something that a lot of people are so fearful of, as you said early on. Where did that come from?
Amanda (43:27):
I think it's just my personality. I think it's in it. I think my father was like that. Always had wanderlust, always wanted to travel. That's what I do. And on the other side of it, my mom's very much a homebody and so is my brother. They still live where we were brought up and born. And so I see that I definitely lost a little bit of that thought through perimenopause. I lost my sense of adventure and I realized that that was the thing that made me personally thrive. The thing that makes me grow as a human is to try new things and to push those boundaries. Not in a crazy way, but just to put myself in uncomfortable situations. And I definitely lost that a lot, lost that part of myself. And I think as soon as I got that back and worked, I worked hard on that as well. It didn't come easily. I had to spend the time reframing everything. It, I just felt so good to be me again.
Stephanie (44:24):
I love now I think describing that process is so important. I feel like I get to see women maybe that are on the other side of it and there could be a milestone that they've achieved, whether it's a new place they've traveled or a sport they've taken on or maybe returned to the workforce and a new career and it looks from the outside like, Oh, I've just gone through something difficult and figured it out. And it's never that simple. So I'm glad that you called out the fact that you really had to intentionally, it sounds like work on that for yourself. To get back to that, can you tell, just for anyone who's listening and looking for how to frame this transition and coming through it, can you talk about maybe what you found as the maybe couple most important mindsets that you found were helpful for you?
Amanda (45:26):
Yeah, so I talk about this a little bit in my book. One of them was the idea that I was allowed to put myself first and start taking care of myself. And it was an alien concept to me, and it is to many other women because we're nurturers by, even if we don't have children, a lot of us just ultimately wanting to care and look after other people. And even getting my nails done felt almost like a guilty pleasure. And I realized that that had to stop because I was floundering and I wasn't thriving. And ultimately that impacted everybody else around me. And so I actually spent some time working with a friend of mine and I wrote a chapter in the book called Shift. Shift Happened. And I thought it was funny because
Stephanie (46:13):
It does
Amanda (46:15):
Shift, but shift did happen for me. So it was ultimately trying to put myself first without realizing that it was an act of self-preservation and not just being indulgent. Women need to stop doing that. And for me it was something simple, getting a tiny bit earlier, having a cup of coffee. And at the time I was in Texas sitting outside listening to the birds and it just sort of set me up for the day. And I just realized that I needed to take more off my plate cuz I wasn't doing well with my 20:00 AM I'm a to-do list person. So I had my big three rocks, I wanted to move that day and anything else was a bonus. And I gave myself small wins. So that was the thing, I was like, what can I look for that ultimately makes me feel better about myself than I did before?
(47:04):
And exercise is a huge part of my life and I believe it should be a huge part of everyone's life because of the amazing health benefits on all, on every area of our body, mind, soul. But when I was really struggling with perimenopause, fatigue was a big issue for me. The depression, the anxiety, the migraines, everything. I would miss a lot of my planned workouts and that was a whole other thing for me. So I had to learn to become adaptable and flexible and take the heat off myself. And so if I did a walk one day and I felt better afterwards, I'd be like, tick, there's a win. If I did a 10 minute workout instead of a 50 minute workout, that's 10 minutes more than I did before. So a whole lot of reframing as well. And then honestly, the last thing that was, I think the biggest change was working on my what were my strengths and my values.
(47:58):
And these are psychological tools, but ultimately they give you direction. And in the book I talk about how to access them. There's a couple of websites you can do, but for me it was ultimately, well my driving force is still my family and it's still my health and it's still my career, but it was in that order. So I was like, my family still matter. So every decision I make literally has to be, does this fit in with what I want for my family right now? Is this gonna improve my health in any way? Is this gonna be something that's gonna be helpful for my career without impacting the other two? That was the type. And then working with my strengths. And my strengths were curiosity, which I thought was a really limb strength to have. But it ultimately means that after I've found something I'm interested in, I do that deep dive down the rabbit hole, come up with the solutions, the evidence, and I share and I wanna share and I want a platform to be able to give this information to women. So honestly, when I realized that that was what I was working with, it was so easy to say, I don't wanna promote that product and I don't wanna come to your wellness summit and I don't wanna do this and that. And it just freed up a lot of noise in my head. So I highly recommend that for women, just if they need that direction.
Stephanie (49:20):
I don't think you have to go through menopause to,
Amanda (49:23):
You don't to
Stephanie (49:24):
Reevaluate that either. For those of you that are not there yet, it is just a passage in time in life and experience that can lead us there.
Amanda (49:36):
Exactly. It can be many different situations. So I just really want women to just allow themselves the time to make those decisions and just look about what's the best thing to support them right now.
Stephanie (49:53):
Yeah,
Harper (49:53):
It's so good. I love that so much. I wanna be respectful of your time cuz we're a little over than we said. So do you have something else, Steph, before we get into the last question?
Stephanie (50:03):
Nope. I was gonna ask you to do the last question. There
Harper (50:06):
We go. So when you hear the phrase good enough for now, what does that evoke for you?
Amanda (50:12):
Oh, I love that. And I think that sort of just plays into everything I've just spoken about. Why don't we work with where we are instead of fighting it? So if I'm talking about perimenopause transition through to menopause, which can be these impactful years for a woman, why are we fighting? What's happening when we know our body is meant to do this? Right? And if it's impacting us on a physical, emotional, neurological level, then why don't we first of all seek help if needed. But then instead of fighting, fight, fight, say, what's gonna support me right now? What's the best thing my body needs right now? Is it a day working from home hybrid style because I can't face going into a noisy office with Bob who stinks and eats his food too noisy, right, <laugh>? Or is it a day where it's a bit of a cup DM day where I can really thrive and get a lot done? Why don't we just work with where we are? Because to me it's a transition and being good enough for now to me is a win. It's not a sense of failure. It's like I made it.
Harper (51:22):
Thank you for that. Thank you. It's such a good soundbite. Thank you for that. Really. Where can people find you and buy your book?
Amanda (51:31):
Yeah, just my website amanda th.com. Like all paths lead from there, so it's good.
Harper (51:36):
Amazing. Thank you so much Amanda.
Amanda (51:39):
Thank you. And good luck with the rest of their season. I'm very proud of you both.
Harper (51:44):
Oh, thank you. Thank you. I'm proud of you. I'm so.

Stephanie Kruse