Embrace Yourself, Change The World with Dr. Akilah Cadet
In this episode of Good Enough for Now, we chat with Dr. Akilah Cadet, about how she navigates the work of her firm, Change Cadet and the facts of her life: dismantling white supremacy while managing chronic pain and disability.
As a young Black woman, Dr. Cadet experienced judgment, "isms", and numerous barriers in the workplace. As a result, she started Change Cadet, to provide companies and brands with services that support anti-racism, diversity, inclusion, equity, and belonging (DEIB) including executive coaching, strategic planning, facilitation, and crisis recovery.
Tune in to hear Dr. Cadet explain how Black women are saving the world, tangible steps you can take to dismantle white supremacy in your daily life, and how Dr. Cadet mobilizes her “isms” to create a more equitable and just future.
LISTEN NOW
Here are three reasons why you should listen to this episode:
Realize the importance of intersectionality
Redefine your relationship to your disability to one of celebration
Discover how you can work toward dismantling white supremacy in your daily life
Highlights
We met with Dr. Akilah Cadet, CEO of Change Cadet, where she resides in Oakland, seven years after launching her business.
I am, you know, a continual badass who's just building an empire, dismantling white supremacy, and managing chronic pain and disability.
Five years ago, just about when Dr. Cadet launched her business, she was diagnosed with a rare heart condition that forces her body to believe it's suffering a heart attack every day. She also has nine other conditions, along with Alport Syndrome which affects her kidneys, hearing, and vision and Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, which means her body doesn’t produce enough collagen.
Nonetheless, she finds space for celebration.
I just celebrated my five-year anniversary last month of being disabled. It's something to be celebrated, for what we have to go through.
The work of dismantling white supremacy while suffering from chronic illness is heavy, so Dr. Cadet allows herself the grace to be overwhelmed.
I give myself patience and grace to be sad…the reality of the situation is I live in chronic pain, I'm disabled, and I dismantle white supremacy… I traumatize myself regularly, like on a daily basis, to do this work with my clients. And I'm also in the process of writing a book. So I traumatize myself while writing my book…And so I allow myself to feel overwhelmed, have that time and space and then I get back to it.
Throughout her corporate career, Dr. Cadet constantly found herself dealing with discrimination, bullying, sexism and racism–all of which exasperated her depression.
So I constantly was in positions where I became a threat because I didn't play into the characters of Black women…by default I was not supposed to thrive or succeed in those spaces.
I had to choose my overall health and wellbeing. And so that's how I started Change Cadet. It started as a side hustle when I was being discriminated against and bullied.
She began Change Cadet after being fired for pushing back on the discrimination she faced at her job.
She cashed out 95% of her retirement and took a chance on herself. She asked for gift-cards for her birthday, ate out of her pantry for three months, and also barred herself from shopping at favorite place: Target.
I'd never been fired…I had a choice, Do I wanna go back into a nine-to-five space?...Or am I gonna take a chance on myself and figure out how I could solve that?
After three months and a mailing mishap with the retirement check, she was out of money and contemplating moving back to Sacramento. Then, she received a check in the mail that included back pay from unemployment. In a couple of weeks, she applied for a contract request for proposal and was able to bring in a quarter of a million dollars. She recognizes the privileges she had, as well as the sacrifices and limitations that characterized her experience.
If I were a heterosexual cis-gendered white male, I would be able to go to a bank and get a business loan. But I couldn't do that.
Intersectionality, a term coined by Dr. Kimberlé Crenshaw, is defined as the ways aspects of our identity “intersect” to create unique dynamics and effects. Celebrating intersectionality is at the core of Dr. Cadet’s work.
And so when we work with our clients, we're helping them realize that intersectionality is multifaceted, which means you're always gonna cause harm, which means it's important to apologize and hold yourself accountable.
We all have different lived experiences, but within intersectionality, we can have some commonality.
Through celebrating intersectionality in their training, Change Cadet attempts to push back on the systems that allow white supremacy to thrive.
When you realize that there are so many different parts, you cannot be perfect in how you respond to people, a situation, a problem, whether it's internal or external. But when people strive to be perfect, it goes back to qualities of white dominant culture of wanting to be perfect. But when we're perfect, we exclude our intersectionality. And the people who have more intersectionality are excluded more, right?
At the heart of this dismantling are single actions–a combination of transformations on how leaders, employees, and companies act.
We focus on how we want our leaders to act, our employees to act, our companies to act. And that stands for accountability, communication, and transparency…that incorporates dismantling white supremacy, that incorporates intersectionality, that incorporates all the acronyms––diversity, inclusion, belonging, action, accessibility, whatever they wanna do. It comes through right? With how we act.
This transformation of action can occur in the workplace, as it is one of the places where people spend most of their time--but it can’t stop there. Dr. Cadet sees extending this thinking into your daily life as an opportunity to turn allyship into action.
If they don't see the problem, what they said or what they did, you have a choice of how you're showing up in their life. Do you wanna uphold values of white supremacy or do you wanna distance yourself? Or are you gonna have more boundaries in that relationship? Or are you gonna continually hold them accountable? And what does that mean for your overall mental health and wellbeing? Right? Because nurturing relationships that create harm aren't great relationships.
When George Floyd was murdered in May of 2020, the work Change Cadet was doing was in high demand. The violence of white supremacy was brought to the nation’s attention, and individuals, leaders, and companies promised they were going to make a change.
So I was helping everyone else…I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully process that. But for me it did mean that the world was starting to change.
The public response transformed into something Dr. Cadet calls the Summer of Allyship.
The fixing, it was very performative. And that's what we see in our companies and our favorite brands and our organizations: that cyclical process. And so people are like, Oh, hey, the murder George Floyd changed the world this summer. It changed the summer of 2020, but we're still here in the same position.
She points to January 5th, the day Black women flipped the Senate, and the subsequent insurrection of the Capitol on January 6th as exemplary of the lack of real progress this performative energy brought.
To combat this performativity and its regressive nature, Change Cadet creates accountability where there was none before.
The way white supremacy works is I have to fix something I didn't create, right? So yeah, we have surveys for our workshops to see how people are feeling. And you know, we can see through antidotes of how our clients are changing or advocating for, you know, certain programs or people. We can see those things. But ultimately, whatever I do, it doesn't matter. And the big scheme of things, because I don't have the power and control to change it, I am the person who could be used as a performative intermediary to get to the place where they wanna go. Or I can be used as a person, or company where they're actually going to change their policies, practices, and procedures and hold them accountable to them.
Dr. Cadet measures her impact not on accolades, but on the transformation of daily behaviors that work to unravel the systems and actions that uphold white supremacy.
There's no amount of evaluations and studies I could do that can show how America's doing. It's our actions and behaviors and the daily moments that will show how we're making progression.
Although her work is incredibly difficult, Dr. Cadet sees no other way to approach her path.
My alternative is death and pain and suffering and strife. So if I'm gonna do anything, I might as well have death, pain, suffering, strife and trauma, trying to make it better for me. It's not ever gonna be better for me. I go into this work knowing it's not gonna be better for me, but it could be for my kid maybe, or my kid's kid maybe. Right? Or if someone is hired in a different way as a result of our actions. I don't have an alternative. I don't have that privilege. So if my life is with so much adversity and discrimination, I might as well experience it while hopefully changing it. I'm literally sacrificing my mind, body, spirit, and soul to do this.
When thinking about who inspires her, she looks to no one other than Beyonce.
The way [Beyoncé] shows up is a way in which a lot of people can learn from, but it's rooted and centered in being an unapologetic Black woman. So that's why I love her.
What Good Enough For Now means to Dr. Cadet:
When I hear good enough for now, it just is for me a reminder of learning and unlearning. Right? If people feel that they've arrived, they aren't living life, right? Because there's so much to continually learn from everyone, every moment, every time, and experience. So, learning and unlearning.
ABOUT
Dr. Akilah Cadet is the Founder and CEO of Change Cadet, an organizational development consulting firm, which offers a broad array of anti-racism and diversity services for companies and global brands. Dr. Cadet has 15+ years in management and building successful projects, teams, and leaders in the public and private sectors. She is a 2021 Forbes Next 1000 Honoree and honored as one of Staffing Industry Analysts’ (SIA) 2021 Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Influencers. Forbes and the Wall Street Journal Diversity and Business Newsletter have featured her work.She has spent an extensive part of her career designing training, coaching executives, and informing systematic change to improve the workforce experience for large organizations. She lives in Oakland, CA, literally has all the degrees, celebrates her disability, has an incredible shoe game, and is a proud Beyoncé advocate.
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Harper (02:59):
Welcome Akilah. We're so happy to have you here today.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (03:03):
I am thrilled to be here as well.
Harper (03:06):
Tell us where you're in your life right now.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (03:10):
I'm currently in Oakland, California. I am, you know, a continual badass who's just building an empire dismantling white supremacy and managing chronic pain and disability. I'm currently sitting in a place with a big ass lidocaine patch on my back and counting down two back injections in five days that should hopefully change my life. Well, that makes my to list look completely trivial. <laugh>, thank you for that. <laugh>. I mean I haven't gone grocery shopping or anything like that. <laugh>.
Harper (03:44):
Oh my god. I'll shout out the fact that we did have a conversation previously on Made Visible about your health that I encourage people to go and listen to because your story is so incredible and what you have been through and what you go through on a day to day basis that I think people do not understand. Can you give us a little synopsis of your health story and then we'll dig into white supremacy, you know, that tiny little thing and your business and all that you do on a day to day basis.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (04:12):
Yeah, I mean it's your typical health story where you go full time into your own business than a year later diagnosed with a rare heart condition. Um, so I've coronary artery spasms, which means my body thinks it's having a heart attack every day. So I live with the symptoms of a heart attack. So pain in my actual heart, my chest, I'll get weakness in my left arm, I'll get shortness of breath and then I can have actual heart attack. So that's fun. Um, I have nine other conditions, but since we've talked on your podcast Harper, I have Alport syndrome. It affects my kidneys, my hearing and my vision. And so I have to get those things checked every year. It's a progressive disease. I also have Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. My body doesn't make enough collagen and if anyone knows anything about collagen, it's an everything <laugh> and your body.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (05:04):
So it affects my joints. My joints will want to subluxate meaning go in and out, not fully dislocate or they can dislocate. My muscles that are really easily and I can't walk on. It's very fun. And then I also am in my final testing for ankylosing spondylitis, which is a form of arthritis where the spine wants to just keep growing it, it fuses together and it's a progressive disability. So I have a lot of things that are, what's a technical term? Fucking awful. But you know, I deal. So the happy part is because I went into doing my own business now being disabled, and I just celebrated my five year anniversary last month being disabled. It's something to be celebrated for what we have to go through. Um, business, because I have this other point of intersectionality that I can talk about, you know, in addition to being a woman, a Black person, you know, I'm also disabled. So there you go.
Stephanie (06:08):
It's such a reminder. You never know what someone else is going through, and to your Made Visible podcast Harper. You know, so much of it can be invisible to us. And so coming from a place of openness and understanding and respect just should be the baseline. Right. <laugh> for how we interact with each other.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (06:29):
It should, You're absolutely right. But that's not the case because people don't have that lived experience, you know? And so it doesn't pertain to them. So why should I care about it?
Stephanie (06:39):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and I think you know, your work when you put that into context of dismantling white supremacy mm-hmm. <affirmative>, how do you do this work without letting it overwhelm you,
Dr. Akilah Cadet (06:52):
Stephanie? So kind you to think that it doesn't overwhelm me because it does. I'm not super human. I am a human being and I'm, I'm in a period of definitely feeling overwhelmed. And so for me it's more so what I do and typically when I'm moments of like, why is this my path? You know, I get a message and like, Thank you so much for what you do and I've learned something and blah blah blah. And then you're like, uh, purpose. You know, and I reaffirm it, but I give myself patience and grace to be sad. I mean, I was crying day all day yesterday, I was like "Why is this my life?". Which i think it really important because when we fight it, then it's pretending "As If". But the reality of the situation is live in chronic pain, disabled and dismantle supremacy. I traumatize myself regularly, like on a daily basis, um, to do this work with my clients. And I'm also in the process of writing a book. And so I traumatize myself writing my book. I just live in a whole of trauma. And so I allow myself to feel overwhelmed, have that time and space and then I get back to it.
Harper (07:57):
I also think of you as someone who's very boundaried. I feel like almost every time I email you there's an out of office that's not like "I'm on Vacation", although you do have those sometimes <laugh>. But it's, I'm working on this, I'm traveling for work, I'm working on my book. And I think it's really important to do that and to delegate cuz I know you have a team that supports you. Can you talk about how you decided to build your business change today and you started?
Dr. Akilah Cadet (08:27):
So there's thing called racism I get to experience on a regular basis and that's what was happening in 9 to 5 spaces for me, racism, bullying, harassment discrimination. Whether I was a woman or Black or Black woman or educated Black person, educated woman, whatever the math is, I was all of those things. So I constantly where I became a threat because I didn't play into the characters of Black women, I wasn't someone's like mammy to be very comforting and like be okay. And I wasn't necessarily a jezebel who was like very fast and all over the place and you know, I wasn't what people wanted me to be for them. So by default I was not supposed to thrive or succeed in those spaces. Now it doesn't mean that BIPOC people, Black Indigenous People of Color, particularly Black women, can't thrive in nine to five spaces. But for what I was bringing to the table with my three degrees and my experience, and you cannot be, you can't be funny and pretty and smart.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (09:29):
Okay, see that's why I went wrong. It's my fault <laugh>. So by having all those things, I knew it would be healthier for me to be in my own space. So with the discrimination, harassment, bullying, sexism, all the fun stuff I was experiencing, I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder a lot. I was on part of like being discriminated in my doctoral program, which I did full time while working full time. It was like perfect storm for major depressive disorder. Um, but I had to choose my overall health and wellbeing. And so that's how I started Change Cadet. I get started as a side hustle when I was being discriminated against and bullied. And then eventually with the story Harper, I'll it with your listeners, very succinct story. My last nine to five job, I had a white male boss in it's mid sixties and our regular one-on-one meeting me the executive who coached all the executives of this big health organization and problem solving and culture change, all the good stuff that I love as a doctor in leadership organizational behavior.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (10:30):
He looked at me and said, "I don't think you were that smart when interviewed you, but you smart". I was like, what <laugh> what? At that time I had 15 plus years of experience. I came from a health system. I was three times that size. I had run the programs, I had all the things. And here I am thinking like, oh finally have this job that's paying me six figures and I get to really have these Olivia Pope outfits and I live in the Bay area, so free parking. And I'm like, commute was like 10 minutes. I felt like I arrived cause I worked so hard. I did what society told me to do just to get all these degrees so people don't see that I'm Black so I can progress and all this. And here I being very transparent in the interview process and the presentations and the applications and the cv, all the stuff I had to do. Like I didn't think you were that smart when I interviewed you. Cause I asked why and he was like, Oh I guess it's offensive. And I said yes and hurtful and I'm gonna have to rebuild my trust with you. Cause that's devastating. And so what Mommy doesn't like this part of the story. Yeah, clearly mommy made it, it's fine. I'm on the Forbes list. And so as a result, <laugh> as a result of that, he fired me the next week.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (11:47):
So I was in a position where I'd never been fired. I worked in healthcare and public health. So I'd been laid off before, like have all the plaques for being laid off but fired. I'd never been fired. And so I had a choice. Do I wanna go back into a nine to five space? And in retrospect, I'm seeing this pattern of people wanting me to fit in a box of how I should be limiting myself affecting my overall health and wellbeing. Or am I gonna take a chance on myself and figure out how I could solve that? Because if I felt that way, then other people probably felt that way too. And so I went full time into Change Cadet. I cashed out 95% of my retirement and hustled very hard to get to where I am now. And now I've had my business for seven years.
Stephanie (12:29):
What I love about that is your choice, while you certainly were a victim of discrimination, right? You didn't take that on as being only a victim of it. You said, Wait, I have a choice. I can do something else. I'm gonna choose and have agency and be myself and give myself what I need. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and what a great example of of showing that you know, you don't have to participate in that system. You can create a new one.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (13:00):
Yeah. But also I had the privilege to do that. Sure. Right. And I think that's important cause there's a lot of folks who can't and they have to stay in those situations because they have to take care of family members or themselves or their own experiences and have other things. Now I didn't have the money <laugh>, I had just moved to the Bay area. So my savings were, you know, I was definitely tapped out. So I signed up for Medicare, um, so Medi-Cal here in California at my birthday was the following week. So I asked for gift cards for the grocery store. I was unaware that I could get food benefits. I did not know because that didn't come. Anyway, that's a whole other thing. Um, and I just ate outta my pantry for three months and I couldn't go to Target.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (13:49):
I mean there was got point where I couldn't even go to The Dollar Store. Like so I had to sacrifice. But I bring this up because I knew I was going to get unemployment benefits. I knew I cashed out a big part of my retirement. But what I didn't plan on was that the retirement, cause I was with the city county, they would send a check to the right place, wrong name, wrong name, right place. And that took three months. And because I ended up being fired illegally, unemployment, they were like, Wait a minute, you still have a job? Because the company, cause they fired me illegally, had to hire me back and then pay me out and give me benefits, It was a whole thing. And so that stopped my unemployment. So the privilege I thought I had of like, okay, well in a couple weeks I'll get some and I'll piece it together.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (14:34):
And I had little consulting contracts of work. It didn't happen. And so it was like at month three where I was like, ok, well I don't, I don't have more money <laugh> so I dunno what I'm gonna do. And my mom's like, You can come back to Sacramento. And I was like, No, no, no. I've worked so hard to not go back to Sacramento. It's not what I want. I was on my, and it was around. And so me to go check my mailbox, my mailbox and I had all the back pay for my unemployment and I had the right check, the right address the right name, that I could deposit. So I immediately opened up this. I didn't know that it's been so long that I've been like laid off unemployment benefits, debit card now. So immediately ordered a burrito. You can tell I'm a Californian, because I was like, I haven't been able to eat a burrito. And they're expensive here you know they are $9 to $15. They are not cheap.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (15:29):
So immediately ordered a burrito, um, cried. And then the next day I went to deposit that check. And then I went to go buy Christmas presents cause it was December for my family and I celebrate Christmas. But that gave me enough money to breathe so that I can get to a point of building my business. And so later that month I applied for a contract, request for a proposal. And then the second week of January I was able to bring in a quarter of million dollars. And I've been building since then. But it's not without sacrifice and like so many tears and cryig. No Target, as I mentioned. I think it's really important to mention, I did not have Target for months.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (16:08):
So it's important to up that privilege because there are people who can't even do that. You know? Now if we're also bringing privilege up in another way, if I were a heterosexual cisgendered white male, I would be able to go to a bank and get a business loan. But I couldn't do that. And so you have to also realize that I knew in order for me to take a chance on myself, I would have to deal with the penalties of taking out something that's supposed to make my life easier when I retire to get to the position in which I'm in. Which is fucked up on so many levels. Yeah. That I have to know that
Stephanie (16:44):
I definitely remember feeling as a young woman, you know, getting fired or getting a new job. And that feeling of seeing that check in the mailbox and being like, Oh my, I just won today. Life is completely different. And just hearing you recount that story was a visceral reaction of that feeling of like, I'm hanging on by my fingernails here. Like am I gonna make it? And getting through those experiences I think is the only way to really appreciate and understand other people's experiences best. Right. Because you lived it. And while my experience of, you know, going through getting laid off maybe completely different than your experience of being discriminated against fired and starting a new job, there's that idea that we do have common ground somewhere in our stories. Can you talk about how you help the clients that you have find that common place outside of just the constructs that you know they come to you with?
Dr. Akilah Cadet (17:49):
Yeah, so Dr. Kimberlé Crenshaw, a Black woman, I always like to highlight that, coined the term intersectionality. And it just means our lived experiences when it comes down to it. The intersections of our identities. So if you going down, there's different intersections identifies as, uh, low income could get off the bus or anyone who's disabled would get off the bus at the disabled intersection. Or a woman, or LGBT+ right? So the different parts of intersectionality, and it can be so minute. If we think of a bus of just women, we can think of intersectionality with women, those who identify as lesbians or queer, or disabled or whatever it may be, right? And so essentially when we think about intersectionality and that bus that's going down the street at that dead end, it's the people who have the most privilege. So we're talking about heterosexual cis gender individuals. And in America it's primarily men. Because if you have a heterosexual, cisgender white man who's disabled or gay, they don't have as much power because they're gonna deal with a form of discrimination.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (18:52):
So intersectionality is something that should be celebrated, but we also know that there's consequences as a result. Those identities we have. So my intersectionality, I'm a Black disabled woman who's a Founder-CEO who's an author, stylist, a twin, I'm Caribbean. I mean, there's so many things that I could talk about as far as my intersectionality. And so when we work with our clients, we're helping them realize that intersectionality is multifaceted, which means you're always gonna cause harm, which means it's important to apologize and hold yourself accountable because your lived experience, Stephanie, is different from Harper's lived experience, which is different from my lived experience, which is different from, you know, your engineer's lived experience, your producers, you know, we all have different lived experiences, but within intersectionality we can't have some commonality. So Stephanie, you and I can talk about what being laid off is like and how you had to deal with unemployment or there's a severance check and then blah, blah, blah.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (19:52):
Or the drama that led up to it and whatever. We can go into that and have some common things. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But there may be some differentiating factors. And when we have those moments of common ground, that's what we bring in with our clients. When you realize that there are so many different parts, you cannot be perfect in how you respond to people. A situation a problem. Whether it's it's internal or external. But when people strive to be perfect, it goes back into qualities of white dominant culture and wanting to be perfect. But when we're perfect, we exclude our intersectionality and the people who have more intersectionality are excluded more, right? As a result of that. And so we focus on act how we want our leaders to act, our employees to act, our companies to act. And that stands for accountability, communication and transparency that incorporates dismantling white supremacy, that incorporates intersectionality, that incorporates all the acronyms; diversity, equity and inclusion, belonging, action, accessiblity, whatever they want to do, it comes through with how we act.
Stephanie (21:04):
When you talk about it in the corporate or you know, work environment. It seems that there has been or continues to be companies saying, we wanna do better at diversity, equity, and inclusion. Or companies saying to their employees, we wanna, you know, elevate the commonality. What I find is trickier sometimes just talking about my own experiences. Something Harper and I talked about yesterday is in our social lives, in our friendships where we find ourselves sometimes in these situations where, I'll give an example. So I'm a huge tennis fan. I love Serena Williams
Dr. Akilah Cadet (21:50):
The same
Stephanie (21:50):
And I will cry talking about the last couple weeks of her
Dr. Akilah Cadet (21:55):
As
Stephanie (21:55):
You should being at the US Open, right? And I was actually going to a match, I unfortunately didn't see her this year, but I was going to a match and a friend of mine and I were talking about it and was saying, you know, gosh, she's just meant so much to tennis. I think it's almost impossible to describe what she's done for the sport, what she's done for women, what she's done for mothers. And a couple of the comments that would come back was like, Oh, but her behavior on the court. And I said, Well, you know, yeah there have been incidents but you know, men yell at the court, Nick Kyrgios gets fined for screaming. You know, how do we think about that? And, and I pushed a little bit on it and then, you know, the conversation sort of went somewhere else. But I was sort of left feeling like, like what do I say? How do I act? Do I think to myself, well I guess this is a topic I can't discuss with this person. Do I assume that they're racist? Do I assume that they Right? And how do I feel about that? And I'm not a Black woman, I am not a Black tennis star, I'm not Seren Williams. If were to call in or talk about that, you know, where's my lived experience that I could say this is hurtful. Do I have a right to say something about it?
Dr. Akilah Cadet (23:09):
Yes. Yes you do. So fun fact here, we spend more time at work than we do in our lives. Yeah. And the very policies and procedures that are in place assure diversity, conclusion, belonging don't happen. You know how I know I'm busy? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if we look at all the metrics from 2020 after the murder, George Floyd of what all these companies are gonna do, many of them have not since put out a report of what they're gonna do and say. Right? So if people can't figure out how to be inclusive in the workplace, it doesn't matter what's gonna happen in their personal life. Because if we're spending eight hours of our day in this workplace, and yes we have time after hours and we have time on the weekend, if you can't get it right in the workplace with mandates control and policy and you're signing stuff, then it's not gonna happen.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (23:54):
Right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and social life. Which is why a lot of what we do as, as far as change today, we make it clear. It's like this doesn't stop when you go outside of the imaginary or the actual doors of your office. You have to continue it in your, your personal life. So I love Serena Williams played tennis, started playing tennis at five, did all of the things. Um, we were appropriated my twin and I in the Sacramento with our tennis rackets and our uniforms cause we played in high school because the Williams sisters were very, very big. You know, it was fresh and new at that time. I'm 40, I very proud 40. If anyone's wondering how and why that's applicable. Um, Nick Kyrgios not only took one racket and beat it to shit after losing, he takes multiple rackets. Yes. That conversation isn't there. And he's not Black, but he's BIPOC right.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (24:48):
Yes. That conversation is there. Pete Sampras, I mean there's so many people who've had literal shit on the court, right? But it's accepted because again, they're part of white supremacy, white dominant culture. You have to uphold those behaviors and actions. So if anyone's doing the same thing as those who are in power, then all of a sudden it's like, oh, I need to check that person. So they know that they don't have that power and they can feel less than. So what does it mean in your situations after you're hearing that type of conversation? Well, you have to decide who you are. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, are you an ally? So someone who's gonna, you know, learning how to use their privilege and learning about the culture group or people that you're advocating for and maybe testing out saying things or are you gonna be an accomplice? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> someone who understands their privilege, they understand white supremacy and the systems as a result of that. So we have lots of different injustices and blah blah blah, institutional racism, blah blah blah. All the greatest hits that come from it. And they're saying, what, when I wake up I'm brush teeth, I'm gonna put on my deodorant and I'm going to check my bias and privilege, for myself. And for others.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (25:56):
And for, so in situations like that, this is always fun to ask questions. So why do you think Serena Williams behavior is not okay and Nick Kyrgios's behavior is okay? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> or another white male tennis player. And you make them start to think because it's a way for you to check them to say like, Mm, your racism is showing <laugh>. Right. Exactly. Your homophobia is showing, your xenophobia is showing. Because the fun part about being a Black woman is that even when we do all that we're supposed to do for society, like I told you I have three degrees. Did I wanna get a doctorate? No. But I wanted respect. And so when a white guy was mad at me at a hospital, at a conference room table, whatever it was, they would still have to talk to me in a way that would garner respect.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (26:45):
Even if it was only saying Dr. Akilah Cadet. Because I have the power and privilege to correct them. Yeah. Right. So even when we exhaust ourself to do all these things, we are held to a standard where we are not deserving. We're not deserving because there's only Beyonce and Oprah who can have it all cannot do any wrong. But even when you have the GOAT, the greatest of all time, one of the most tremendous exceptional tennis players in the history of tennis say like, Hey, that's not cool judge. Which lots of other people do. They're held at a different regard because we must be silenced, we must be controlled. So you ask that question of your friend and see what fucked up shit they're gonna say and then you say what I just said. Yeah. I want you challenge yourself. Why you're viewing a Black women has the most accolades way of which she's not deserving of what she should get.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (27:41):
Knowing that we have bias with the very judge that sits in that chair. There's bias of course. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I was part of U S T A. There's bias all throughout because we as BIPOC people, particularly Black people are not supposed to play tennis. So that very friend of yours is probably like, Why does she have beads in her hair? Mm-hmm <affirmative>, it's so distracting to who, Right? Because they won a lot of things with beads in their hair or braids or whatever bodysuit, whatever. It's, yeah, it doesn't matter. Right? Yeah. And then you can go into the oversexualization of Black women's bodies. That starts at a young age as well. And so when people are like, Serena can't wear her body suit, she can't wear this or she's so full or whatever it is or her butt or whatever, they're not doing that to white women.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (28:36):
Yeah. Right? And so it's always important to challenge those individuals. Another thing I do recommend, regardless of what the topic is, to have resources ready, whether it's something you have found on TikTok, Instagram and article, just like general, hey, you may be racist things, share it <laugh> and provide it. And then you can always circle back and have a discussion. Now this is the hard part. Your friend general, your friend, your family member may be racist, homophobic, sexist, whatever that thing is, you now have a choice. So after you've given them an opportunity to educate them and to say like, Oh, I did not know that because I internationally known expert am learning and unlearning all the time. If they don't see the problem, what they said or what they did, you have a choice of how you're showing up in their life. Do you wanna uphold values of white supremacy or you wanna distance yourself or are you gonna have more boundaries in that relationship or are you gonna continually hold them accountable? And what does that mean for your overall mental health and wellbeing? Because nurturing relationships that create harm aren't great relationships.
Harper (29:40):
I love that. I'm so glad you acknowledged that story Steph, cuz I think it's such a good example here. And I think the topic of choice is so important in what we're discussing with you today. Because you do have the choice to choose which role you wanna play. Do you wanna sit back and be part of the problem or do you wanna be part of the solution and sort of identify what's going on here? You brought up George Floyd and I know that your business skyrocketed after the death of George Floyd. Can you talk a bit about how you think that time has changed our culture and society? Either in the work that you're doing or just overall in you being a Black woman in society and how people perceive one another?
Dr. Akilah Cadet (30:30):
So George Floyd was murdered May 25th, 2020, holidays, Memorial Day weekend, and the next day my email started to increase. I personally worked 19 days straight from the 26th. But I self cared. You know, I got in the tub and I checked emails from the tub <laugh>. It is an interesting time for me and other BIPOC organizational development firms or diversity firms or combination of both. Because all of a sudden we mattered in a time where we didn't matter as much before and we mattered a time where we didn't matter to the world. And so the waves and waves of emotion were really hard. So I had to sit there and I worked for 19 days cause I was like, oh, white people are not gonna be interested in me ever again. So I have to make as much money as I can because I wanna build generational wealth. So when I have a kid, they're gonna be able to have something.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (31:31):
I don't have that. And then is this reparations? What's happening? So I worked tirelessly to grow my business, which really, really, really wasn't fair because everything they're asking for, I literally could do on the 24th of May mm-hmm. <affirmative> <laugh>. But all a sudden, right? It had more interest. I also didn't get the time to mourn or grieve because people needed to figure out what it meant for them. And so I'm doing that for social media, I'm doing it for my clients. There's lots of emergencies in between of how companies were not responding well internally or externally. So I was helping everyone else and I didn't get to process that. I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully process that. But for me it did mean that the world was starting to change. And I, there's a whole article about it, but I call it the Summer Of Allyship. And the reason why I call it the Summer of Allyship is because the only differentiating factor of why people are advocating for my life as a Black person is because of the Covid 19 pandemic.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (32:39):
So, um, if you remember, lots of other Black people were murdered by police, including Brianna Taylor. She's murdered the week in March, 2020, the week when people were like, Are we going inside or, or not? Is this happening here? Right? Yes, people are upset, but not to level of George Floyd may meant people had been sitting in it depending on when they went in, you know, for two, three months. And depending on the privilege of how, if they were inside or outside, right? So they were inside. And so there is no choice but to see the horrific treatment that we experienced on a regular basis from police. We meaning Black people because it was on social media and it was on the news. That's so people had to like say like, this isn't went outside. And we had to do something about it. So that was an incredible summer where people wanted to come to workshops, they're buying the books.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (33:44):
So if you look at the New York Times best selling list of that moment in time, you're seeing nothing by Black authors fucking White Fragility. I don't believe in that book. But you know, a lot of people were like, What can I do? How can I show up? How can I have these difficult conversations like Stephanie, like you've had to have and Harper, I know you've had to have too. How can I do that? But as soon as pretend school started, we went back and I say pretend school meaning that as adults we are conditioned to, you know, if you're in the US or your schooling system, you're like, Oh, summer's over so I have to go back, you know, to work. Or people are going to virtual school or some kids were going back to school. You know, we got into that mode, people forgot and then it went into the election cycle.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (34:24):
So we go into election cycle, they're like, you know what, we can solve all these problems. We get Biden and Harris because Biden by proximity like Black and you know, we have Black so many things, AAPI and Caribbean Black and woman, we can fix it. If we do, it'll fix, it'll be fine. Yeah. And so, you know, we fixed it cause I got office, but then, then we had January 5th, Black women saved the country on January 5th. That was the day we flipped the Senate. Right. It was a huge day. We're like, Oh my God, we're have controls. Yes. We did it. We got the, the white guy and the the BIPOC woman. And now we have, oh my God, this is amazing. What happened on January 6th? Shit show. Exactly. But the simple fact that no one remembers January 5th goes back to my point about Serena Williams and Black women saving the world.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (35:16):
And no one gives a shit. Right? But January 6th. So we go back into the, oh my gosh, where are my books for the summer of allyship? What do I need to do? Because the fixing it, was very performative. And that's what we see in our companies and our favorite brands and our organizations. It's that cyclical process. And so people are like, okay, the murder George Floyd changed the world this summer. It changed the summer of 20, but we're still here in the same position. And we think about the Trumpism, we think about where the Republican party has gone. We think about how, you know, a lot of people who are not white and heterosexual and non-disabled are living in pockets of fear, moments of fear, confusion, frustration. So if the murder of George Floyd changed our country, why are we here? Why are we talking about abortion? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, why are kids not learning things that they used to learn in school because all of a sudden it's racist. So yeah.
Stephanie (36:22):
Yeah. I wonder too if that moment in time with the pandemic at that time, right before May, I just remember watching the television special where they were, you know, zooming in actors and musical performances and showing empty streets in Rome and empty streets in Taiwan and empty streets in New York. It was a together moment, which we really mm-hmm <affirmative> can't even begin to understand. Right. It's the whole entire world going through the same thing at the same time. And then George Floyd happened and you're right, I remember viscerally understanding like, oh people are outside now. What's going on? You know, like, yes, of course we're outside, we're not hesitating. But I wonder if it wasn't a benefit of some feeling that we were all in something together finally. And then we just split back into individualism and my ideas versus your ideas, My life versus your life. And I think sometimes it's particularly American, but it happens everywhere and it became so fragmented again. I still stand in disbelief when I look at, you know, the abortion ruling and Wait, what? Like how, how are we here? I thought things were changing too. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so how do you measure the successes that you're having when things do feel like they sort of move forward and maybe regress back? Or how do you frame that in your work in terms of progress?
Dr. Akilah Cadet (37:55):
I mean, I think a better question is how does one measure the levels of white supremacy <laugh>? Because I'm solving a problem that's not mine. But the way white supremacy works is I have to fix something I didn't create. So yeah, we have surveys for our workshops to see how people are feeling and you know, we can see through antidotes of how our clients are changing or advocating for certain programs or people. Like we can see those things. But ultimately whatever I do, it doesn't matter in the big scheme of things because I don't have the power and control to change it. I am the person who could be used as a performative intermediary to get to the place where they wanna go. Or I can be used as a person who, or company where they're actually going to change their policies, practices and procedures and hold them accountable to them.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (38:43):
Cause like we were talking about earlier, lot of companies, we already have this, you can't discriminate the workplace. It's federal policy, it's state policy. You cannot do that yet. It happens. Why? Because the people in power and control are not held accountable. So we have all the solutions in place to be in a position where we can dismantle white supremacy, but it is choice of who has the power to keep things the way they are. If we get into a position where we actually dismantle white supremacy, a lot of people think it's like, well I won't have the power I have as a white person or my favorite. But we don't want Black power, we don't want Black supremacy. Well when we think about dismantling white supremacy, it's important to note that if we're looking at the actual word, white supremacy is not a bad thing.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (39:29):
Like what do you mean it's not a bad? Well white supremacy is being a white person who gets pulled over and they get a ticket or no ticket because giggles <laugh> and hey, you know, um, white supremacy is having your pain believed when you are seeing a doctor or treated in the emergency room because you're not a drug addict or drug seeker. White supremacy is getting a job just because getting promoted. Just because white supremacy is living in a neighborhood that has all the things that you need for the social determinants of health to thrive. It's walkable. You're not dealing with pollution. Police will respond for things that are, they should respond to. There's access to grocery stores. You're not in food desert or food swamp, right? So white supremacy means you have all the things you need to thrive and succeed. All the social determinants of health to live a healthy, happy life.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (40:24):
I would love that. I would love to go to emergency room without a doctor's note from my doctor saying these things. And then when they don't believe that, I have to say I'm also a doctor. And then it's like a whole situation. I'd love to just be in pain that's treated. You know, I would love to not have my blood pressure go up when a cut car comes next to me. I would love that. I would love to go into the five star hotel, I love to stay in and not be questioned and asked if I'm in the right place and see their tone change. We're like, Oh you're Dr. Cadet. I don't want that. I don't want that at all. And so when we talk about dismantling white supremacy, it's everyone who's not white getting the same thing as white people. So I asked the question, why are we not deserving of the same thing of what I just said of just having law enforcement that doesn't wanna kill you or murder you.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (41:12):
And the list goes on and on and on. So if you think about measurement for me it's going to Peet's coffee and not having someone say, I didn't see you when I'm in line like everyone, I'm not seen. You don't tell. I'm not seeing, I get it. I'm Black, I got, And so I cannot stress this enough that if we wanna look at the impact of things, we're seeing more companies, we're seeing more influencers, we're seeing more celebrities, we're seeing more leaders hold folks accountable. Look at Lizzo and Beyonce. They changed their lyrics because they used a derogatory slur for our disabled community. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, where are the men who are changing their lyrics? Black women. We save the world all the time.
Harper (42:02):
Yeah.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (42:03):
And then we know we just had the Emmys on a Monday, which is very random. I cannot figure that out. I thought that was really strange too. It's like, who planned this? It's happening now. It's not Sunday. Do you want no one to watch this? But if we about it, there's two key things that that show exactly how white supremacy show up for the Emmys. That a lot of people, Quinta Bronson won an Emmy, a Black woman and Jimmy Kimmell laid on the floor. It was like part of like the little skid of like how he came out to announce the comedy award, blah blah blah. But he didn't have the common decency to get off the fucking floor. So this wonderful woman could accept her word. He laid there playing dead, just laid there. That's a way of dominance. That's a way of white supremacy.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (42:50):
That's a way of power. That's a way of control. Like why do that? Like do your skit and get up. Congrats, move on. Haha. It's funny. But then we also have Sheryl Lee Ralph, she won, had a word of Black woman for the same show and <laugh>, her speech was wonderful and she sang a song that's all about empowerment and Black people. She was really great. But even her speech, she was saying to not give up and to persevere as a Black woman in our sixties, getting an Emmy for the first time, So it would be nice if we think about measurement where someone can accept award without having to continually encourage other Black women to keep, to keep going through the strife and the suffering because one day someone will see you. Those are the things that we need to see more of. There's no amount of evaluations and studies I could do that can show how America's doing. It's our actions and behaviors and the daily moments that will show how we're making progression.
Harper (43:55):
How do you stay motivated to do this work while living this as a Black disabled woman on a daily basis? How do you stay motivated to do this work and deal with a lot of idiot white people who are not using the proper terminology and not being allies? How do you continue to do this and choose to do this?
Dr. Akilah Cadet (44:18):
My alternative is death and pain and suffering and strife. So if I'm gonna do anything, I might as well have death, pain, suffering, strife and trauma, trying to make it better for me. It's not ever gonna be better for me. I go into this work knowing it's not gonna be better for me, but it could be for my kid maybe or my kid's kid maybe. Or if someone is hired in a different way as a result of our, our actions. Like I don't have an alternative, I don't have that privilege. So if my life is with so much adversity and discrimination, I might as well experience it while hopefully changing it. I'm literally sacrificing my mind, body, spirit, and soul to do this. And I also encourage other Black people like, you don't have it and you don't do it, I'll do it for you.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (45:09):
But that's additional weight that I'm also taking on too, right? So I'm in a position where I'm gifted to talk to so many different people because of my lived experience, because of my intersectionality. Because of my appearance. I have a lighter complexion. I am beautiful. So the white guy is gonna wanna talk to me. The white woman is gonna wanna be my friend. And so I'm gonna hold them accountable along the way and any other person in between. Now society may view me as stupid, but I am not <laugh>. So as a result, that is why I choose this very difficult path. But the other path is difficult too. So I've chosen my voice over silence.
Stephanie (45:55):
Thank you for that. Before we get to the last question, I wanna talk about Beyonce.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (46:02):
Do <laugh>.
Stephanie (46:05):
So I know she's a huge inspiration to you. Yes. And someone that you revere very much. So can you talk about what she means to you and what you think she represents?
Dr. Akilah Cadet (46:17):
So Beyonce, Giselle Knowles Carter, myself, <laugh>, we have been in a friendly competition for few. So we're a year and two days apart. Um, we just had our birthdays. So I'm 40, she's 41. So that Virgo energy that Beyonce gives is identical to mine. I give none the fucks. I have boundaries. I know the power of what I have. I do use my voice. And some people are like, Wait, so you just like her music? Yes, sure, definitely into it. But I like her business acumen. I like how if you look at homecoming, you'll see me in it, by the way. Cause I did go <laugh>. But um, you'll see that she is the assistant director, the producer, the executive producer choreography. You will see that she's in different places. And I think that's something that's very powerful because she knows her skillset. It's multifaceted and similar to mine.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (47:21):
But, um, she's an unapologetic Black woman, which I am as well. And she uses her power and privilege for good. So homecoming is something that is super important to me because it was, for me, it was for Black people. It wasn't for anyone else. It was for Black people. And being the first Black woman to headline Coachella, which is very sad as she says, Ain't that about a bitch, You will understand how powerful it is for someone to sing, Lift Every Voice And Sing. And then for the white people around me to say like, what new song is this? Not realizing that it's r it's the Black national anthem to have an entire show that's about historically Black colleges and universities, HBCUs and for traditions that I'm accustomed to, either through family members I didn't or things I'm to or family used to. Powerful to and to see influx of Black students going as a result of that deals are so calculated, multifaceted that it just brings me so much joy.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (48:34):
Like her Tiffany's deal, she's getting a whole bunch money. She's like, you're gonna have my husband. It we're also gonna do some video and then you're take million and put it into educational funds for Black students. So the way she shows up is a way in which a lot of people can learn from, but it's rooted and centered in being an unapologetic Black woman. So that's why I love her. And honestly, I do this work because I just wanna work with Beyoncé and when that happens, fuck everyone else and hopefully he's, you know, hanging out Donna yacht somewhere, being unbothered. So I think that is in your future for sure. For sure. I'm working on it. I'm working on it.
Harper (49:20):
So as you know, the name of this podcast is good enough for now. When you hear that term, what is it evoke for you?
Dr. Akilah Cadet (49:28):
I wanna hear good enough for now, it just is for me a reminder of learning and unlearning. If people feel that they've arrived, they aren't living life right? Because there's so much to continually learn from everyone, every moment, every time, and experience. So learning and unlearning
Harper (49:46):
Love it. Thank you so much for chatting with us and providing us with your wisdom because I love talking to you always and you always share such important information that more people need to hear. Where can people find you and learn more about the work that you do.
Dr. Akilah Cadet (50:03):
So you can find me on all platforms at the word change and c you say cadet because white supremacy. Um, but I'm patient so it's a silent change. C, a d e. You also can learn about all the things on change com, including our Change Action network. Um, I educational this year, I think time is hard, but there are on demand videos, tools and resources to help you keep learning and unlearning how you, so the change challenges you can do on a daily basis. And also book coming out. Uh, and it's called My Love Language is dismantling White Supremacy. It'll, I'm the book if you'd like, you're, that's also on my website But I have to say Stephanie and Harper, this was so fun. I appreciate the conversation. I think the questions, uh, that I was able to answer for you, that were asked of me will hopefully help a lot of people who may have a life that's structurally or similarly like yours to know how they can use their power and privilege for good. So thank you so much.
Harper (51:55):
Thank you.
