Adapting to Change With Resilience with Nadia Tatlow
In this episode of Good Enough for Now, we hear from Nadia Tatlow, CEO of Shift, a software company that’s built to help people create simplicity in their lives so they have more space to grow. Born from an organization that values innovation and creativity, Nadia leads Shift in the same way, encouraging teammates to have fun with their work and keep an open mind when challenges inevitably arise.
Nadia was prepared for leadership during her childhood, moving a number of times, both internationally and cross-country. Over time, she adapted to new environments and found her place by figuring things out as she went along and leaning on competitive sports. Today, she’s a mover in a different way, kicking perfection to the curb as she seeks her own definition of success.
Tune in to hear how goals and motivation change over time, how Nadia learned to be more reflective, and what the biggest needle-mover has been in her leadership.
LISTEN NOW
what we cover in this episode:
How to lean into lived experiences to be an adaptable and agile leader
Why strengths can become our Achilles heel and how to repurpose them into opportunities
The value of a differentiated team and how to use that as a driving force to move the organization forward
How Nadia slows down and and keeps herself grounded
How Nadia and her company were able to pivot and rebuild without losing momentum
Resources
Connect with Nadia on LinkedIn
What Good Enough For Now Means To Nadia Tatlow
I think for me, it is really learning to enjoy where you're at in the present because there's no end point. There's no, “what are we going for here”. I think that's maybe the classic midlife crisis question that people ask, but if you're not enjoying where you're at now, you're never going to, you know?
You see all you see these people who are put on a pedestal in society, like big celebrities or athletes or politicians and they seem to have achieved everything and then they have to just keep going, do something else or transition to something else.
I think, maybe on a smaller scale, all of us are doing that all the time. You're going through phases and sometimes you look back and it's like, oh that was a great year or a great few years. But you realize that maybe if you could actually remember your mindset then you’d have periods where you’d have an amazing few years but you didn’t realize it at the time.
I don't necessarily say I want to go back; if you went back you wouldn’t know what you know now. It is a lot about perspective to which I think at least in this phase of my life, I'm learning to enjoy the present more.
ABOUT Nadia Tatlow
Nadia Tatlow is the CEO of Shift, the browser for work. Based in Victoria, Canada, Nadia and her team are focused on decluttering the browser experience and helping people get stuff done with more focus. They serve tens of thousands of productivity enthusiasts around the world. A passionate leader, marketer, and startup builder, Nadia has taken Shift from inception to scaleup, optimizing for innovation, profitability, and fun. Nadia is a strong believer in conscious leadership, and making work as enjoyable as possible. When she’s not working, you’ll find her running with a good podcast, bopping around downtown Victoria, and traveling to new places whenever she can. Next up: Italy!
-
Stephanie Kruse 0:05
Welcome to Good Enough For Now, a podcast aimed at dismantling perfectionism one conversation at a time. I'm Stephanie Kruse and along with my guests on the show, we share stories of false starts unexpected you turns in moments of reinvention that happen as we move through life. Thanks for joining me. My hope is that our conversations will help you stay grounded, feel a little less alone and a little bit more together
Stephanie Kruse 0:41
Hey, everyone, and welcome to April. This episode of Good Enough For Now includes a conversation I had with Nadia Tatlow, who is the CEO of a tech company, that he and I discuss a lot about how she as a self described, a student had to learn and adapt to different situations based on experience from her childhood, where she was a competitive athlete and part of a family that moved around a lot. What she brings into her work now is not only that adaptability, but learning to have fun with it, learning to make mistakes, learning to be energized from a community of people at work. And then also in her personal life continuing to be curious about what helps her develop. Let me tell you about Nadia.
Stephanie Kruse 1:30
Nadia Tatlow is the CEO of Shift the browser for work. Based in Victoria, Canada, Natalie and her team are focused on decluttering the browser experience and helping people get stuff done with more focus. They serve 10s of 1000s of productivity enthusiasts around the world. A passionate leader, marketer and startup builder, Nadia has taken shift from inception to scale up, optimizing for innovation, profitability, and fun. Nadia is a strong believer in conscious leadership and making work as enjoyable as possible. When she's not working. You'll find her running with a good podcast in our ears bopping around downtown Victoria and traveling to new places whenever she can. Nadia, it's so good to talk to you today. Thank you for joining me.
Nadia Tatlow 2:17
Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
Stephanie Kruse 2:19
Oh my gosh, this is gonna be such a fun conversation. So we'll just dive right in. One of the things that I'm always curious about with my guests is to have me understand where you are in your life right now.
Nadia Tatlow 2:34
Yeah, so I live in Victoria BC. I moved here about 10 years ago. So kind of, I guess, settled into Victoria on the west coast of Canada. It's such a beautiful place. Yeah, it's a gorgeous place. So spend a lot of my time outdoors. There's kind of everything you can imagine to explore within 30 minutes to an hour drive from here, hiking wise. So I do that a lot. I just got married last year. And laughter I guess a one delay with COVID. So felt lucky to do that. Yeah, yeah. And it was awesome. It was actually the first big event that pretty much anyone had been to in our group since the restrictions lifted here. So kind of felt like we kind of lucked out, I guess, with just timing there. Yeah, I'm running a company called shift that I started with the team back in 2016, as basically a side of the desk project that turned into a full on company. So that's exciting. And going well. I've got a cat. I got a cat during COVID. Looking at me right now.
Stephanie Kruse 3:39
That's so funny. Yeah, all of the pets that found homes during COVID. It's a whole phenomenon. Right? Totally. That's great. And one of the things that strikes me is, you know, your journey to be the CEO of shift. You talked about it being a side of the desk project. And I hear this a lot. Almost this accidental, Oh, this isn't where I expected my journey to be going. But here's where I ended up. So tell me where you started out and how it came to be front and center for you.
Nadia Tatlow 4:11
Yeah, I feel like it was a really fortunate way to start a startup. So I was an employee at a company here in Victoria, that was starting to diversify and kind of the founder there wanted to basically try a bunch of new projects and ideas and see what would stick and luckily, with sort of, you know, a great talented team and some entrepreneurial spirit within the team, including myself, it was easier to do that I think and using the resources that we had within that company. So shift came along as basically an idea for a SaaS business that would solve an internal pain point that we had. So originally, the idea was to help manage multiple email accounts, including calendar and drive so when you have a Gmail for personal On a Gmail for your work or, you know, Gmail, oh, yes, email, whatever. Yeah, pretty much everyone in the world has this problem now, making it easier to manage all that and manage the brand. And the identity switching context switching, we call it between all that stuff without all the logging and logging out, or going into, say, Chrome and having a zillion different browser tabs open. So it started really to solve that pain point, which was getting especially obvious to us because of these different projects, we were starting off the side of our desks. And then basically, it kind of snowballed, so I sort of led the team within that company, and then we ended up spinning out. And then you know, realizing that the vision for shift was a lot bigger than, I guess, just an email switching tool, it was actually a browser for work. So that meant adding basically every app, you can imagine all your social media apps, CRM, really any tool that you would use, especially at work, but between work and personal, we added those to our app library. So I think we support like 2000 now. And you can add that to your shift ecosystem, which is essentially like a top bar and a sidebar that sits on your desktop, and allows you to easily switch between all your accounts, avoid all those pain points that we originally set out to solve for.
Stephanie Kruse 6:18
If only it helps you remember my password.
Nadia Tatlow 6:22
We do that you actually you can import all your all your passwords. Yeah, that's a big part of it. Probably one of the number one pain points for people.
Stephanie Kruse 6:31
Oh, absolutely. And different apps you use prefer you use one browser over the other. Right? So if you're on safari, sometimes it works better on Chrome. And yeah, going back and forth, that switching to your point, you know, I run a small business, I have a personal life. I have projects that sometimes they give me an email for right, because I'm a consultant. And it is a huge time suck. So thank you for tackling this one. No problem. Yeah. And I imagine that you've got a range of clients, but are there particular companies or types of companies are size organizations that you tend to find? Really stick? To what shift is?
Nadia Tatlow 7:15
Yeah, there's definitely a lot of trends. I mean, I guess, because my background is in marketing. I originally saw the pain point really, with those marketers, especially people, probably like yourself that run multiple, like small business, but also have other projects on the go. Yeah, so marketing people, specifically at agencies, but also really any type of consultant might have to jump into one company's world and then out of that, and into another one, like 10 times within a day. Yeah, those people immediately got it. So they were easy to hook. But really, it's almost anyone. It's pretty broad and diverse, which is something I like the challenge of.
Stephanie Kruse 7:58
Yeah, right. Because there's the whole like, since you're a marketer, you can't be all things to all people, you have to pick a lane. Yeah. But I think what you're saying is it is about sort of how you know, what's getting in the way of productivity, and that can apply to different shapes and sizes of companies, but the intrinsic need, and what inflection point is happening is kind of similar. So yeah, I imagined to when you came into running a company, one of the things that came up, as I was sort of looking at your background and looking at some of our prep conversation, was that idea of adaptability. As business grows, I can imagine that it continues to change and flux and that requires an amazing amount of agility. I think when you're a leader, what do you think has helped you be adaptable in your life, you know, whether it was the speed bumps that happened when you're planning your wedding, which are inevitable, or you know, how you lead or how you managed growth in this chapter, what's helped you and what's been challenging?
Nadia Tatlow 9:04
Being adaptable. I think that might be one of the biggest strengths in the world. I think for me, it was like, Really, when I go way back as a kid, my family moved around a lot. My dad worked at a company where, you know, kind of took us outside of Canada to Brussels, Belgium from I think I was in grade one. We moved from Toronto to Belgium. Then we went to Washington, DC for a few years. And then just to cap it off, we went to Calgary Canada, in grade nine. So I mean, I don't know if there's any years in your childhood that aren't Pivotal, but they all seem pretty, like critical junctures and absolutely yeah, my sister is two years ahead of me in school so interesting to just see where she was in her schooling and social life, you know, at those stages, too, but we had to be adaptable like it was like, sink or swim. That's kind of how I saw it when we were making those moves. So I think, luckily, for me, I played a lot of sports. And that always gave me a nice little entry point and maybe a bit of a softer landing than otherwise. Like, it's always hard, it's hard to leave your friends and go to a new place. And this was all before social media and, you know, really being able to keep in touch daily or whatever. So it was big, it was kind of, you had to adapt. And you had to adapt socially, but also, academically, I was a super kind of type A kind of kit. And so you know, it's like, how am I going to do this at this new place, I got to figure it out. And it felt like I had to figure it out on speed, every time. So I made that my mission, and I was kind of an intense little kid, and probably just human. So I would like dive in. But I think where I figured out the whole adaptability thing is just realizing how powerful that was, I got this skill, where I felt like I was able to walk into a new classroom or a new social setting, and just be like, Okay, I kind of get this, like, there's a lot of parallels with the last place. And I learned a lot there. So I can apply it here. And I think that was probably the most impactful early on experience that I had that I think really does apply to everything I do now where you're constantly when you're, you know, running a company, you're constantly managing lots of people and lots of priorities. You're constantly sort of having to rejig and rethink and listen to the new information and look at the old information and try to find the best path forward. So you don't rock the boat too much at any given time.
Stephanie Kruse 11:46
Right? Where do you find that kind of middle place to keep the consistency in the midst of constant change? Right? Yeah. I think you know, it's always so interesting when we think about where we came from, and what strengths we have, and sometimes how those strengths when we overuse them, can become our Achilles heel. Yeah, so I'm wondering, your quick adaptability? What's been the flip side of that? Is it hard for you to stand still?
Nadia Tatlow 12:14
Yeah, it is, you know, that's a really good point, I actually think about that a lot. You know, as hard as the pandemic was, I think that was a time that actually did force me personally, to stand still, for the first time in my life in a real way, like, kind of cut out all the outside distractions and social stuff that I love to do, and sort of be a little more reflective of that stuff. When I was a kid, I definitely realize how much I was always just, you know, had the blinders on for perfection, and whatever that was, and it's so it's sort of fed to you, I think, or at least for me, it was, as a kid, it's like you're graded constantly. So you're always have a clear directive in terms of like, getting the best mark, or being the fastest runner or scoring the most goals on the soccer field. And then I think, yeah, there's a big transition that happens, you know, going to university even where you get less grades, I did my undergrad in political science. So you get maybe a couple big graded papers or exams, right? Yeah, that's a good point. And then you get into the kind of adult world or professional world and you just don't get graded. You're just like, strive to I don't know, where is my rubric I was looking for, you know, where's my A, and for a long time, I thought that was just seeking more financial reward. Sure. And then, you know, now I really reflect on that. And yes, financial rewards are great, but it's a piece of motivation for me, but it's definitely not the whole picture. So I think it's very freeing for people when you realize there isn't, you know, a straight path or a single way to be successful. Like, really? Everyone has a different definition of success. Oh, yeah. In a way, like, when I look back, I'm like, Oh, thank God. You know, like, we're not all looking for the same thing here. Right? Yeah. It's a lot more exciting to work with people who all have different goals and motivators and everything.
Stephanie Kruse 14:17
Well and challenging, right? Because I mean, if you think about when you started out, like you had just mentioned, maybe it was about, you know, particular reward, maybe that's financial success, or, you know, maybe at some point, I know, like, I got really hung up on title, right? Was I, a manager, then a senior manager, then a director, would I get to VP, right, you know, all of those things, these outward external signals that you're achieving, that are sort of akin to a grade or a time and a race or, you know, whatever it was that you could look at and work on as you were younger. And you do get to this point where you say like, Okay, so maybe it's not about that there's something else that's more fulfilling to me. And some of that comes from experience. Some of that comes from trial and error. But when you manage other people, and especially for CEO, you someone running a business, that can be exciting that people come to the table with different perspectives and visions of what success means to them. But it can probably also be a really big challenge. So when you are leading others, what is the common ground you look for?
Nadia Tatlow 15:26
I think that's actually my favorite part of my job is looking at, okay, here's the big picture model, like, say, for the year or even five years or whatever, you're looking ahead, and you're sort of looking at, like the grand vision of really where you want the business to go, and where your leadership team is aligned on like, where you're headed, right? And then it's like, okay, to get there, you set some goal posts and some milestones, and you look at it, pretty granularly. But once those are set, I think that's where it gets fun and more creative. You know, when you have amazing people on your team, it's like, how can you just unleash their creativity, to get to those midway goalposts and ultimately, the big vision at the end, wherever the, you know, the endpoint is, and sort of let them go. I spend a lot of time just in conversations, like really just open ended conversations with everyone I can possibly spend time with on the team every quarter, and just kind of get a sense of like, what they want to work on what they're excited about what they see being like a major needle mover for the company, but also for them, I think once you can tap into each individual's like what sparks them, and then somehow feed that back to them. I want them to feel like they're building the experience and stuff that they'd be proud of talking about, you know, in their next job.
Stephanie Kruse 16:56
Yeah. Well, it's a pretty growth oriented mindset. And I've been sort of on a nonlinear path for about 10 years. And when I look at LinkedIn job descriptions, it's almost like the secret redacted files, like when I blacked out half of it, not apply. And I almost wonder if you know, gosh, what would happen if we just looked at what interest areas were and skill sets and transferable skills? Like, does a job description even matter? Yeah, if you just have people to your point that are open and growth oriented and into their own development, that is so powerful, to be able to harness it Sure, with 20 people is different than 2000 is a different animal. Totally. But I think that there's so much good there to pass along. And for you as a leader, then how do you define success for yourself now?
Nadia Tatlow 17:52
Happiness is happiness in general, but happiness at work. I feel like a huge responsibility for that for myself and for my team. You know, I think about productivity, like we get categorized as like a productivity software. And it's just like, yes, it's for productivity. But I think about it as actually more to help you focus on the most important thing so that you have more time to do what you love. So yeah, I think balance is what leads to my happiness. So keeping that balance in my life is success, because it keeps me happier. And the people around me benefit more.
Stephanie Kruse 18:35
Yeah. And how do you practice that?
Nadia Tatlow 18:39
Trying to find more time for like quiet, which I definitely didn't do early in my career, I was more just like, go go go. And sometimes I think back and I'm like, oh, maybe that's why things worked out actually, early on for me. So there's a balance there. But now I'm like, Okay, it's more about that consistency in momentum than it is about these Sprint's and you can't sprint forever. So finding times, like, honestly, the pandemic was when we started working from home. So maintaining that flexibility in my schedule, so I can work on the stuff I want to work on. Yeah, and then just staying physically active for me is really important and eating healthy, pretty obvious stuff. But yeah, it's like kind of knowing those things in your life that distracts you.
Stephanie Kruse 19:35
Yeah, it's obvious to say that you should do them. But it's not always obvious how right you know, there's always going to be something that gets in the way, right that tries to take your attention, or your time away from whatever healthy practices you're trying to implement. You know, often, I hear from women and men in leadership positions as it can feel quite low. Only sometimes. And it can feel like it all starts and ends with you as the CEO. How do you find reflection of where you're at? Do you have resources that you use? Or other women or men that are in positions? How do you kind of help keep yourself grounded as a leader?
Nadia Tatlow 20:22
So a few things. But I think just making sure that, like, I know that social stuff gets me going, like brings me energy. So having enough stuff in my week, that's just like, unplugging and socializing, especially with working from home so much now. It's like, I think I can lose perspective. Also, as much as I enjoy it. I also, I can get in my head. So I know for me the answer to getting out of my head and like getting some perspective on things is to like, unplug, go hang out with some friends, or family. I've got family in town. So that definitely helps. I've got an amazing coach who you also know, well, goalie, yes, yeah, basically, no matter what mood I'm in, I meet with her every couple of weeks. And sometimes I'm like, I don't even know what I'm going to talk to her. But I go into those hour long sessions. And it's like, my brain opens up and starts firing in different ways. And I always leave in a better mood than, then I went in. So that definitely helps. And then I think just podcasts and stuff. I used to be a big, you know, listen to business podcasts and stuff that was like, you know, gonna help me in some way, or I was gonna learn specifically about whatever I was working on. And I've sort of stopped doing that as much. And started using podcasts as more of sort of an escape, I guess. Yeah. So like, I like to just listen to topics, you know, stuff that I don't know anything about. And I feel like that helps just get my brain in a different place.
Stephanie Kruse 21:58
Yeah, my family always makes fun of me, because I'm that person that will like turn on the National Geographic show on whatever animal like for some reason that's like, that baking show are both relaxing to me. And I remember listening to, you know, some podcasts was talking about like nature sounds and whale songs, on a vacation with my family, and everyone's like, what are we listening to? It's, you know, it's like perspective changing, do your point, get out of your head, lift your eyes up, look outward, whether it's socializing with someone having a conversation with your coach, or your therapist, or your friend, whoever that person is for you, right? Because some of us pay for it. And some of us have a friend who knows everything we need to hear, right? You know, it just depends on the time and what the topic is. But I think putting something into your brain, a stimulus that opens you up to something new is so important, and I'm sure it filters in to what you bring back into your work life.
Nadia Tatlow 22:56
Yeah, I guess it makes us all more interested and curious and more interesting as a result, you know?
Stephanie Kruse 23:03
Well, that's what I like to think is now I can talk about whale song. So look how interesting I am. So the curiosity that's so important, and I know that goalie talks a lot about that, in fact, when she was on, we talked a lot about stepping into curiosity and out of fear, and it was one of the most popular episodes. So I think it strikes a chord for everybody. When you think about kind of what happens next, because you I'm sure are still very goal oriented, though maybe not so beholden to only achieving right, as you've learned this wisdom, you know, being a woman and being a CEO in a tech world, whether it be I know you guys were VC funded. And now you know, you focused on other profit driven models for your business out of that, what are some particular challenges or focus areas that you feel like could be a next step for you when it comes to growing your company or growing your career? What excites you about what's coming next?
Unknown Speaker 24:08
Yeah, we did go through the fundraising mode. So I was kind of all in on that. And then with the pandemic, there's so much uncertainty in the VC market, sort of right when we needed it, that we kind of pivoted the company, strategically to really focus on profit. So typically, there is this sort of pressure, I think, to grow, grow, grow, and the way to do that is to kick on outside funding. So pivoting away from that, in a way to me felt like we were going kind of this subpar route. But I've definitely in leading a team through that change, when the mindset is around growth and VC expectations, etc. And sort of building building in that direction furiously. Then suddenly saying actually, we're rethinking this was a big thing. And I learned so much from that, like, I think, you know, there's no right answer, obviously, you know, in some ways, I'm like, Okay, we're building this super sustainable, amazing business, way less dependencies. And then we would have had, if we were on that sort of venture treadmill, that was, I guess, a transition and just a big learning experience for me around setting expectations and then resetting them and also realizing my own strengths around just rallying people and kind of inspiring them, but like re igniting the flame in a different direction. And like the power, you have to do that, when you've got a team, that there's so much mutual respect with, I was so worried about the what ifs, you know, what would they think what it like, blah, blah, blah. But when you've got this foundation that's so strong, they just kind of accepted that, you know, we're a strong team, we're gonna build the best thing in this direction now. And so that was cool to see. But I think probably the bigger transition challenge for us as a company was, there's a Google policy that we had to basically stop all new development and basically rebuild shift on a new foundation, sort of like pulling the foundation out from under a building and throwing a new one under meet the expectations of this new Google policy. So that actually happened. Also, I guess, a year into the pandemic. So like, 2021, we got this news and had to reshift everything basically rejigged all priorities. And, you know, thank God, we were going in this profitable direction. So we're able to do that without too much worry. But the most challenging things, and I'd say that was a project that ended up, you know, taking a year to a year and a half, and very much feeling in limbo and wondering if this could have been game over for us as a startup, if we didn't respond in a timely manner. Yeah, it's going through that I would say, brought us together, it's made me just realize how much your fears are so irrational. I was so worried this would like disappoint the team and whatever. But I couldn't believe how much everyone just rallied, and we got the work done. And as a result, you know, we're still kind of perfecting this new foundation, but you know, it's out there. And it's better than ever, and it ends up being this amazing strategic direction for us. And it's brought us together as a team. Like, I feel like we've been through a bit of a war together.
Stephanie Kruse 27:33
Yeah. Or like a really intense game of some kind of sport. Oh, yeah. I mean, to bring it back to sports, right? Like, that's why we love the hero story, right? It's, you know, almost not gonna happen, somehow they overcome. And it's better than ever. I mean, this is like the human spirit at its core.
Nadia Tatlow 27:53
And you gain this huge appreciation for what you have, when you think you could lose it. As a startup, especially, you know, we were sort of rocket ship growth, nothing's standing in our way. And I don't know if there's any startup that doesn't hit a major barrier, and to have kind of overcome it, as a team has been super rewarding. So continuing to grow with this team is super exciting, because it's just a really strong, capable and resilient and adaptable team that like, sometimes I think it's like, we could be building shift, but we could be building anything.
Stephanie Kruse 28:28
Oh, that's so cool.
Nadia Tatlow 28:30
Yeah, that's a good feeling that I want to kind of recreate everywhere I go,
Stephanie Kruse 28:34
but we'll hold on to that one. That sounds pretty unique.
Nadia Tatlow 28:37
Agreed.
Stephanie Kruse 28:38
You know, we've been sort of talking about these concepts of, you know, when isn't it perfect? How do we think about achieving and when do we slow down and a lot of the brand around, the idea for this podcast was really to the phrase, it's good enough for now. And trial and error and learning and public. So when you hear that phrase, good enough for now, what does that mean to you?
Nadia Tatlow 29:04
I thought about that a lot when I got introduced to your podcast, I think for me, it is really learning to enjoy where you're at, in the present. Because there's no end point. If you're not enjoying where you're at, now, you're never going to you know, you see these kind of people who are put on a pedestal and society like big celebrities or athletes or politicians and they seem to have achieved everything. And then they have to just keep going like go you know, do something else or transition to something else. And yeah, I think you know, on a maybe it seems like a smaller scale. All of us are doing that all the time where it's like, you're going through phases. Sometimes you look back and it's like, oh, that was a great year or a great few years. But if you could actually remember your mindset then I No, I have periods where I'm like, that was such an amazing few years. But I don't know if I realized how great it was at the time. And I don't necessarily say I want to go back. What I realize now is like, but if I went back, I wouldn't know what I do now. So it is a lot about perspective to which I think at least in this phase of my life, I'm, I'm learning to enjoy like the president more.
Stephanie Kruse 30:27
Oh, that's great. Thank you for that. That was a very thoughtful response. So Nadia, how can people find you learn more about shift? Maybe if they want to use it for themselves? Where can they find you? Of course, we'll put all this in the show notes as well.
Unknown Speaker 30:41
Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. That's probably my most relevant platform, Nadia, Tableau and then shift you can find that try shift.com Fantastic. We're on all the social channels, so Instagram, and Facebook, etc.
Stephanie Kruse 30:58
Thank you for that. And thank you for spending some time with me. I really enjoyed the conversation.
Nadia Tatlow 31:03
Thank you. That was a lot of fun.
Stephanie Kruse 31:09
Thank you so much for joining me. Please share the show with your friends by word of mouth, send them a text and maybe leave a rating and review. It really helps people find good enough for now. Don't forget to also follow us on your favorite podcast player like Apple or Spotify. So you can get new shows automatically each time they're released. You'll find Show Notes at goodenoughfornowpod.com and you can connect on Instagram at good enough for now pod. See you next time.
